Set Ups and Concepts

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  • Set Ups and Concepts

    I'm seriously sucking it up in the high concept department these days. What I've noticed lately is that I'm coming up with set ups and not concepts -- like something that explains how the story got started but not the actual story.

    Someone break me of my habit!

    Give me tips. I need a new way of thinking or to be knocked in the head one. If you do the latter, just be sure you hide first.
    Quack.

    Writer on a cable drama.

  • #2
    Re: Set Ups and Concepts

    dunno if I got your problem right... but try to help.
    If you have the set up for something, what exactly do you have? Characters? Places? An Idea?
    You can just fill more into these things by making background research of the place, the time. Or gather character building things. If you have gathered enough material AND the set up, may be a concept presents itself?

    (It's the way I work. First an idea, then research and dive-in, and then concept building)

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    • #3
      Re: Set Ups and Concepts

      A catchy set-up can be the beginning of a good high concept idea -- maybe two mismatched characters stuck together in an unusual situation or world. But the question becomes, what do they do there? What do they want? What are they struggling to do? To overcome? What will happen if they can't do it in time?

      Why these two characters -- what makes them interesting to watch together? Why now? What is special about this moment?
      How are these characters the perfect people for this task? (Maybe because they are the least likely people to get along together, and/or because they seem to be the least able to complete the necessary task.

      You also consider how the character would have to change to be able to complete the task.


      Originally posted by ducky1288 View Post
      I'm seriously sucking it up in the high concept department these days. What I've noticed lately is that I'm coming up with set ups and not concepts -- like something that explains how the story got started but not the actual story.

      Someone break me of my habit!

      Give me tips. I need a new way of thinking or to be knocked in the head one. If you do the latter, just be sure you hide first.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Set Ups and Concepts

        Originally posted by ducky1288 View Post
        I'm seriously sucking it up in the high concept department these days. What I've noticed lately is that I'm coming up with set ups and not concepts -- like something that explains how the story got started but not the actual story.

        Someone break me of my habit!

        Give me tips. I need a new way of thinking or to be knocked in the head one. If you do the latter, just be sure you hide first.

        This happens to me sometimes. If I can't write a solid logline then I figure there's not enough "concept" to carry 100-plus pages. A couple of times I had luck taking two such concepts and combining aspects of each sparking a new idea for a third concept.

        Another trick I use, in an effort to stimulate lateral thinking, is write a rough list of as many different possible ways to execute a concept as I can. This gets rid of the obvious choices stuck in your head from other films. It gets them out of your head and stimulates your mind to dig deeper.

        BTW: I do this in longhand, on a legal pad, away from the PC. Usually sitting up in bed. I doodle things in the margin. For some reason it loosens up the creative process. There's something about typing ideas into a program that makes them look written in stone. At least for me it does.
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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        • #5
          Re: Set Ups and Concepts

          Originally posted by VanceVanCleaf View Post
          dunno if I got your problem right... but try to help.
          If you have the set up for something, what exactly do you have? Characters? Places? An Idea?
          You can just fill more into these things by making background research of the place, the time. Or gather character building things. If you have gathered enough material AND the set up, may be a concept presents itself?

          (It's the way I work. First an idea, then research and dive-in, and then concept building)
          To me a set up basically describes what's events/actions caused the movie to be set into motion -- mostly stuff you see in the first act. But I think good concepts you read, you can see the II and III act in there, or what's going to be happening for the entire movie.

          Like this is a full concept to me:

          "A teenager is mistakenly sent into the past, where he must make sure
          his mother and father meet and fall in love; he then has to get back to
          the future."

          Back To The Future, you know how it's going to be set up, what he's going to be doing for the entire movie and what's at stake.

          Things that come to my mind most often are like this (and for lack of a better example I went with something horrible and simple)

          "A guy finds a treasure map left by the Confederates."

          But then you wonder, is the movie going to be about him looking for the treasure? Is it going to be about him being chased by those who supposedly protect the conderate gold? You don't know.

          My manager said something to me on the phone that should have kind of clicked, but for some reason I'm still having trouble. And he said think about National Treasure, it's about a guy who's looking for a treasure map -- but he thinks it's on the back of the Declaration of Independence.

          So it kind of took something ordinary, and took it up a notch, upping the stakes and danger. Now you know the movie is going to be about him stealing the document and following clues.

          Maybe I need to think about what's at stake and then go from there instead of start from the beginning (set-up) and try to flesh out something till the end.

          Good suggestions SC. I usually do better with handwriting things down too, but lately I've been typing them onto a document to keep track. Maybe I need to go back to that.
          Quack.

          Writer on a cable drama.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Set Ups and Concepts

            This is the lesson I teach in a class of 10th graders about how to create story. It never fails.

            You have a character. That character has a goal. The character attempts to achieve said goal. Antagonists throw obstacles in the way of that goal. Character must overcome those obstacles to get to the goal - or maybe the obstacles prove to be too much and he never achieves it.

            Sometimes I draw a diagram.

            Simple? Yes. But for some reason thinking of it in those simplified terms helps.
            Chicks Who Script podcast

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            • #7
              Re: Set Ups and Concepts

              Originally posted by ducky1288 View Post
              I'm seriously sucking it up in the high concept department these days. What I've noticed lately is that I'm coming up with set ups and not concepts -- like something that explains how the story got started but not the actual story.

              Someone break me of my habit!
              Focus more on what your hero has to do in the second act.

              High concept is all about giving your hero something to do that is out of the ordinary ("conceptual action").

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                How do you want the story to end?

                Then all you have to do is get from Point A to Point B (of course, keeping in mind all those Act 2 elements).
                "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                - Clive Barker, Galilee

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                  Thanks everyone, good advice.

                  It's easy to come up with something I like -- the manager -- whole 'nother ball game lol

                  I'm going to try some different approaches, per everyone's suggestions.
                  Quack.

                  Writer on a cable drama.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                    Check this out: http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/scr...cgi?read=16360

                    I've been working on my own ideas based on the process Ted uses in that post and...

                    Well, I suck balls, so it hasn't helped much, as you know. But I think you might benefit from playing around with it a bit.

                    If all else fails, we could always use Jedi mind tricks on the old manager.

                    "This is the concept you're looking for."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                      Originally posted by SuperScribe View Post
                      Check this out: http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/scr...cgi?read=16360

                      I've been working on my own ideas based on the process Ted uses in that post and...

                      Well, I suck balls, so it hasn't helped much, as you know. But I think you might benefit from playing around with it a bit.

                      If all else fails, we could always use Jedi mind tricks on the old manager.

                      "This is the concept you're looking for."
                      Thanks T. I also have Strange Attractor and Beach Combing saved as PDFs and I read over them last night and today. Great words on ideas, but I still have to be the one that comes up with them -- therein lies the problem
                      Quack.

                      Writer on a cable drama.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                        Have you two tried "But DoneDealers really like the concept, Mr. Manager." "Who?" "Like bioprofessor, instant karma and, um, umo?"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                          Originally posted by Hamboogul View Post
                          Have you two tried "But DoneDealers really like the concept, Mr. Manager." "Who?" "Like bioprofessor, instant karma and, um, umo?"
                          If you do it with yours first
                          Quack.

                          Writer on a cable drama.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                            Originally posted by Hamboogul View Post
                            Have you two tried "But DoneDealers really like the concept, Mr. Manager." "Who?" "Like bioprofessor, instant karma and, um, umo?"
                            I'm easy.

                            If you can get Biohazard to like it though, you should be golden.
                            "Only nothing is impossible."
                            - Grant Morrison

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Set Ups and Concepts

                              Originally posted by instant_karma View Post
                              I'm easy.
                              That's what they say.


                              Bio, smio -- I'm not scared of that cat.


                              Quack.

                              Writer on a cable drama.

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