Would you keep reading this?

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  • #31
    Re: Would you keep reading this?

    Originally posted by Crayon View Post
    Well, yes, maybe I would keep reading it -- but only out of perverse curiosity, and despite the insufferably overbearing presence of the writer.


    And that rather convenient array of colours bugs me too.
    Somewhere in LA, a bunch of well-known pros are gathered round a laptop screen laughing at your opinion and shaking their heads in disbelief.
    M.A.G.A.

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    • #32
      Re: Would you keep reading this?

      Originally posted by Crayon View Post
      Well, yes, maybe I would keep reading it -- but only out of perverse curiosity, and despite the insufferably overbearing presence of the writer.


      And that rather convenient array of colours bugs me too.
      I kinda liked it, but can see how that voice could become tiring or overpower the story.

      Some say it reads/feels like music while others say it reads/feels like nails on a chalk board.

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      • #33
        Re: Would you keep reading this?

        Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
        Somewhere in LA, a bunch of well-known pros are gathered round a laptop screen laughing at your opinion and shaking their heads in disbelief.
        Sundown - Would you care to say exactly why you've assumed that unlikely scenario?
        Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
        "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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        • #34
          Re: Would you keep reading this?

          Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
          I kinda liked it, but can see how that voice could become tiring or overpower the story.

          Some say it reads/feels like music while others say it reads/feels like nails on a chalk board.
          jonpiper - Yes, good analogy. For me, the writer's constant overt presence is a distraction -- an unnecessary third party getting between me and the imagined movie. A strong voice is good, but wild gesticulations are not helpful.
          Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
          "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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          • #35
            Re: Would you keep reading this?

            Originally posted by Crayon View Post
            jonpiper - Yes, good analogy. For me, the writer's constant overt presence is a distraction -- an unnecessary third party getting between me and the imagined movie. A strong voice is good, but wild gesticulations are not helpful.
            It could be. For me, though, the story - the visuals - overcome the "cute-isms." If someone wrote a crappy script and copied Shane Black's style, it would be insufferable. But Shane Black vividly puts you (me, at least) there, in the scene. And that's good writing, despite the "cute-isms."

            If the writing is strong and effective the style doesn't matter, you're still going to be drawn in. This writing drew me in. I didn't even notice the color of the cars. I got the point of the scene instead. It seems like that, sometimes, critics "can't see the forest for the trees."
            STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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            • #36
              Re: Would you keep reading this?

              Originally posted by Centos View Post
              the story  the visuals  overcome the "cute-isms."
              good writing, despite the "cute-isms."
              style doesn't matter
              I got the point of the scene
              You're pretty much damning with faint praise.

              Originally posted by Centos View Post
              It seems like that, sometimes, critics "can't see the forest for the trees."
              It only takes a few of the trees to be glaringly artificial for the forest not to be wholly convincing.
              Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
              "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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              • #37
                Re: Would you keep reading this?

                Originally posted by Crayon View Post
                You're pretty much damning with faint praise.

                It only takes a few of the trees to be glaringly artificial for the forest not to be wholly convincing.
                When you can see the movie as you read the script that means the writer did his job. When you read a Shane Black script, you can definitely do that.

                The fact that this was a spec script, from an unknown writer, that caused a Hollywood bidding war and was made into a highly successful movie franchise, should mean somebody, somewhere saw something in it.

                It's the kind of script that causes me to ask the question: "What did the writer do right?" Instead of: "What did the writer do wrong?" (Maybe I'm a cup half full kind of guy?)

                Whenever I can, I'll read the break-in script from unknown writers. They're not Shane Black clones -- they have their own voice, but in everyone of them, you can see the movie as you read the script.
                "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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                • #38
                  Re: Would you keep reading this?

                  StoryWriter - I wholly agree. Obviously, it would be stupid to think that Black's writing is entirely without merit -- I'm just not convinced that his self-conscious stylings help the reader to see the movie; and therefore I wonder what purpose they serve. It's despite them, not because of them, that I would keep reading.

                  BTW, in the script, in such a modernist penthouse apartment, I don't believe there would be three potted plants on the balcony railing. Or a car park directly below. Well, at least not in the real world. I don't know if I'm being petty-minded to think that.
                  Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                  "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Would you keep reading this?

                    Originally posted by Crayon View Post
                    You're pretty much damning with faint praise.

                    It only takes a few of the trees to be glaringly artificial for the forest not to be wholly convincing.
                    Bullsh*t. You selectively quoted me and attempted to make me say what I didn't say.

                    Here's my full quote again (without your selective snips).

                    It could be. For me, though, the story – the visuals – overcome the "cute-isms." If someone wrote a crappy script and copied Shane Black's style, it would be insufferable. But Shane Black vividly puts you (me, at least) there, in the scene. And that's good writing, despite the "cute-isms."

                    If the writing is strong and effective the style doesn't matter, you're still going to be drawn in. This writing drew me in. I didn't even notice the color of the cars. I got the point of the scene instead. It seems like that, sometimes, critics "can't see the forest for the trees."
                    I think "vividly putting me into the scene" is not "faint praise." What do you think?
                    STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Would you keep reading this?

                      Originally posted by Centos View Post
                      Bullsh*t. You selectively quoted me and attempted to make me say what I didn't say.

                      Here's my full quote again (without your selective snips).

                      I think "vividly putting me into the scene" is not "faint praise." What do you think?
                      Centos - What do I think? I still think that the language around your more negative points is pretty much damning with faint praise. Obviously, you saying "Black vividly puts you there, in the scene" is not "faint praise", when taken in isolation - although, overall, you didn't give unreserved praise.

                      It's not "bullsh*t" because you actually said "overcome the "cute-isms."", and "good writing, despite the "cute-isms."" - and surely your use of the words "overcome" and "despite" mean that you think the "cute-isms" are at least somewhat problematic. And, if I've correctly interpreted your phrase "cute-isms", that's pretty much what I've been saying.

                      Also, I can't figure out why you would say "the style doesn't matter" if you don't think there is at least some negative issue regarding the style. And to have "got the point of the scene" is surely the bare minimum - hardly a high bar.

                      It's odd that you "didn't even notice the color of the cars" when the four variously vivid colours are in both the action and the Girl's dialogue - her only dialogue - and especially when you'd said that you were vividly put in the scene. Did you also not notice the three pot plants on the ultra-modernist penthouse balcony railing? I found them conspicuous and highly unlikely. Things such as that pull me out of a scene.
                      Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                      "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Would you keep reading this?

                        It's easy to praise and worship a film and its screenplay ex post facto, especially after it's highly successful.

                        Some hit films whose screenplays were at first ignored:

                        8 Famous Screenplays That Were Rejected — Part I

                        5 Brilliant Screenplays That Were Rejected ... Repeatedly
                        “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                        • #42
                          Re: Would you keep reading this?

                          Great list of "failed" screenplays! Can we consider film productions, too?

                          I love the "Making of" documentaries that are all over YouTube. I find and download at least one a week, and have gone through a couple of hundred over the years. My faves often depict the significant difficulties the producer/director had in bringing the movie to the screen.

                          Some of these are:

                          - Making of American Graffiti
                          - Making of Jaws
                          - Making of Aliens
                          - Making of Psycho

                          None of these great films were as easy to produce as you'd think, given the final, universally-acclaimed results.

                          The above aren't exclusively my fave films, by any stretch; it's just that their "Making of" stories were epic or otherwise beyond interesting. Master classes in film production, as far as I'm concerned.

                          There are also documentaries for films that were of less-than-successful or weren't even finished. For instance, there are good ones for poor Terry Gilliam's efforts, including Brazil, Baron Munchausen and Don Quixote (from the 90s). But we're talking Terry Gilliam, here, so nothing comes easily.

                          Interestingly, many of these documentaries are 1-3 hours in length, which makes them almost as epic as the resulting movies.

                          My overall fave is "The Hamster Factor and Other Tales of 12 Monkeys", another Gilliam work though it was not his own story. Terrific doc.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Would you keep reading this?

                            Originally posted by TigerFang View Post
                            It's easy to praise and worship a film and its screenplay ex post facto, especially after it's highly successful.

                            Some hit films whose screenplays were at first ignored:

                            8 Famous Screenplays That Were Rejected - Part I

                            5 Brilliant Screenplays That Were Rejected ... Repeatedly
                            As far as I can tell, none of these were written by first time writers (as was Shane Black's "Lethal Weapon"). So a newcomer with a new idea, versus established writers who, for various reasons, had trouble getting their scripts immediately made into movies. Not quite sure how one impacts the other.
                            STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Would you keep reading this?

                              Would I keep reading "this?"

                              No. I could tell by the first fifty words... overwritten, on-the-nose dialog (when -- skipping down -- we FINALLY get to it), aggravating (and failing) attempt to snare the reader with "personalized" approach. In a word, unreadable.

                              Back to writing school for Mister Black, whoever he is.

                              Next question.
                              Last edited by Max Otto Schrenck; 06-12-2018, 07:26 AM. Reason: i don't know

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                              • #45
                                Re: Would you keep reading this?

                                Originally posted by Centos View Post
                                As far as I can tell, none of these were written by first time writers (as was Shane Black's "Lethal Weapon"). So a newcomer with a new idea, versus established writers who, for various reasons, had trouble getting their scripts immediately made into movies. Not quite sure how one impacts the other.
                                Ah. Here’s “how one impacts the other,” at least for me. The thread’s title implies that we’re readers about to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on the material provided. In this case, the material was Shane Black’s screenplay.

                                The movie made from the screenplay was a hit, thereby implying the question of whether or not we, as hypothetical readers, would recognize its greatness and send it up the chain of command with our resounding endorsements.

                                The affinity of the sample script by S. Black to the links provided of hit movies that “almost didn’t get made,” regardless of their screenwriters’ status as new or old hands in the industry, ought now to be apparent: a reader (and the business at large) doesn’t always recognize a screenplay as a hit movie even when it’s sitting right in front of them.
                                Last edited by Clint Hill; 09-08-2018, 04:57 PM.
                                “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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