Plot Point 2

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  • Re: Plot Point 2

    Originally posted by ATB View Post
    Let's be honest.

    That's a f#cking lie. Screenwriting how-to theories have not been "proven successful for others."

    That's the whole point of this discussion.

    There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Anyone who tells you so is a no-talent hack.

    That includes Syd Field, Richard McKee, David Trottier, etc. etc. etc.

    They do not know what has been "proven successful for others" because they don't know the process of writing a successful screenplay. They only know how to reverse engineer great scripts.

    That is not the same thing.
    And i believe that best sums up this entire debate.

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    • Re: Plot Point 2

      And i believe that best sums up this entire debate.
      What?

      We can milk this for at least another 20 pages.
      Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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      • Re: Plot Point 2

        Originally posted by christopher jon View Post
        What?

        We can milk this for at least another 20 pages.
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        • Re: Plot Point 2

          Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
          Mr Mazin exclaimed that the reason to avoid these options is because it usually comes from those who do not make a living writing screenplays. I replied that many corporate suits who make the call on rewrites do not make a living writing screenplays, either. So if one source is valid, why is the other not?
          I know I just answered you but I saw this corker.

          It's not a hard concept. Only your defence of guru books and wounded pride from your exchanges with Craig are stopping you from seeing the truth.

          Corporate guys are not telling people how to write THEIR screenplays. They, as the employer, are telling their employee what to do. The customer is telling the contractor what to do. Either way, the buck stops with them. They can make the worst demands in the world but it's their choice, they live or die by the results. The customer is always right.

          You have extrmemely bad taste and wnat a garish color scheme for your wedding. The wedding planner politely suggests alternatives but you insist on your garish scheme. You wouldn't take kindly to a refusal to do what you want. Your stance would be that you're paying so you get what you want. The same goes for producers.

          The gurus have no record and are telling THE WORLD how to write. The producers are telling whoever they're paying. Big difference. The prod cos aren't even telling the writers HOW to write but WHAT they want to see. That idea could be retarded but it's on their dime so it's done. That producer hasn't flushed YOUR money down the drain when YOU trusted in HIM for ADVICE on HOW to WRITE KILLER scripts!

          Gurus = false gods who think they have the answer and are trying to sell it to you.

          Producers = guys stumping up the money and get to make decisions.

          No one is saying listen to producers and so that = you have no argument.


          where as the corporate suits just want to make a buck off of purile nonsense like Scary Movie 5.
          Any producer who doesn't want to make money is a sh/t producer. Any one who thinks a producer should be altruistic and risk their money for the sake of art, even if they lose $180m is deluded.

          And yeah, your last comment showed you wanted to take a shot at Craig. Which apart from being low is also a fail because he's a pro and you're not. He's on the inside, warm and cosy, sipping cognac whilst you're on the outside, freezing in the rain, opining: "ha! the joke's on him! That roaring log fire he's sat in front of is a pale imitation of the Swiss fires of the late 17th century!"
          M.A.G.A.

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          • Re: Plot Point 2

            I really hate absolutes-- esp when it has to do with some artistic endeavor.

            No you don't follow, w/o thinking, some pre-set plot point structure you found in book. You also don't say books are totally useless, don't listen to anything those gurus say.

            Good info on writing SPs can be found everywhere: books, the internet, school, fellow writers...

            But there's a lot of differing info & opinions so it can get confusing for new writers. I know I floundered around for yrs trying to find a thorough, easy to understand method to writing SPs, but never found one that suited all my needs. I had to make up my own method using info, from various sources, I thought was useful to me personally.

            Posters keep saying the same thing over & over again-- different writers go about it differently. There is no right way to do it. No absolutes.

            Use tools & techniques that make sense to you... experiment... try different things.

            I don't care if Mazin, Lowell, BDZ or any other pro thinks using story beats to outline/plot is stifling (or whatever their objections are) ... I'm going to use tools i think help me write my scripts.

            What really matters is the finished product. Ultimately, no one cares what methods you use. They're only going to care about how entertaining your script is.

            "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

            ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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            • Re: Plot Point 2

              I've had a change of heart on that 25 more pages comment.

              Mods... please shoot this horse. It's been kicked enough.
              Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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              • Re: Plot Point 2

                Originally posted by stvnlra View Post
                I don't care if Mazin, Lowell, BDZ or any other pro thinks using story beats to outline/plot is stifling (or whatever their objections are) ... I'm going to use tools i think help me write my scripts.
                None of these blokes said that, from my reading. I think that's the argument of the absolutes that a few posters got into.

                I do feel like this issue is coming to a natural conclusion, usually evident when people start attributing arguments to the wrong person.

                Any final thoughts before we wrap? If you have off-shoot questions from this subject, feel free to start another thread.
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                • Re: Plot Point 2

                  Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                  None of these blokes said that, from my reading. I think that's the argument of the absolutes that a few posters got into.
                  The problem is thinking in absolutes. Nothing that has the possibility to help you better yourself is absolutely good or absolutely worthless. It's all in how you adapt that knowledge into your own personal belief system and use it to your advancement as a storyteller.

                  It's really that simple.

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                  • Re: Plot Point 2

                    Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                    None of these blokes said that, from my reading. I think that's the argument of the absolutes that a few posters got into.

                    I do feel like this issue is coming to a natural conclusion, usually evident when people start attributing arguments to the wrong person.

                    Any final thoughts before we wrap? If you have off-shoot questions from this subject, feel free to start another thread.
                    Nic,

                    At the beginning of the thread they were very adamant that writers should ignore plot point (story beats) when writing implying, or saying outright, that was harmful to writers.

                    That's what I'm referring to.

                    "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                    ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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                    • Re: Plot Point 2

                      Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                      None of these blokes said that, from my reading. I think that's the argument of the absolutes that a few posters got into.

                      I do feel like this issue is coming to a natural conclusion, usually evident when people start attributing arguments to the wrong person.

                      Any final thoughts before we wrap? If you have off-shoot questions from this subject, feel free to start another thread.
                      Yeah, I just want to be clear, I think about story and narrative and plot all the time, and I outline my scripts scene-by-scene.

                      I just don't place any value on the notion that certain *kinds* or *categories* or *functions* of plot points happen in certain places across every script and genre. To me, that's a poor way to begin crafting something.

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                      • Re: Plot Point 2

                        Great place to end. Thanks all.
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