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Old 09-25-2019, 12:44 PM   #111
GucciGhostXXX
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Originally Posted by Bono View Post
And to add ó none of this is truly important. On here itís pretty gentle. But I still see writers attacking on twitter Craig Mazin for his views on how the WGA leadership is running things. And I cringe. Because thatís what has changed a lot. These online forum fights will always happen but what disheartens me is the real fights on social media where people that agree 99% about real life issues still will attack each other as people. Over jokes. Over different POV. Over not being PC. So to see writers still attacking Craig in a mean way is sad. Disagree or agree.

We got to get back to being a country that two people who disagree about everything can still agree on the basic principles of humanity. And break bread together.

I enjoy the jokes. The ball busting. The fights. The tangents. The different personalities. The rants. The empty threats. But sometimes you gotta step back and realize we may disagree but weíre all writers. We should all be on the same side.
100% Agreed!
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:52 PM   #112
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

I only believe what I wrote 87%, but I SEE you Gucci. I see you.
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:56 PM   #113
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

Adverbs? I use them all the time. But I do RECOGNIZE when I'm doing it and stop to consider if I NEED it for the narrative to feel right (i.e. POP!)
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:20 PM   #114
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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Adverbs? I use them all the time. But I do RECOGNIZE when I'm doing it and stop to consider if I NEED it for the narrative to feel right (i.e. POP!)
Solid.
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:58 PM   #115
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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I only believe what I wrote 87%, but I SEE you Gucci. I see you.
I see you back, bruh!
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:01 AM   #116
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

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In the script pages forum, Gucci posted some pages to a potential TV series. The majority of Gucciís style of writing for character introductions is TELLING, not SHOWING. He SHOWS on screen what he TELLS after the character introductions.

When it comes to character introductions, I believe a discussion on SHOWING and TELLING should be done publicly, so this is why Iím posting here and not in Gucciís private thread.

Please, donít reveal any details about Gucciís pages without permission from Gucci.

There are some writers pro and non-pro who donít like the style of TELLING. They believe itís stronger to reveal character through action, which I agree with, but if TELLING and/or the use of unfilmables is the writerís taste and style, I donít have a problem with it -- if itís done well.

There are some writers who are dogmatic about TELLING, but when it comes to creativity, I believe a writer should be allowed leeway.
I got to here and had a brain-fart. It went like this...

Used in a SPEC script which is also designed to attract interest from ACTORS who might like to know what kind of character they're playing, seems cool to me.

So yeah. There's my brain-fart.

Now, should I bother to read the entire thread? Or should I it? Are there any good fights?

Mark
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:01 PM   #117
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

Meh... I'd skip it.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:00 PM   #118
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

what did I miss?
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:07 PM   #119
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

This is a great drama thread between JoeNYC and Gucci, flashbacks of Craig Mazin and Jeff Lowell added to the drama... they heighten the response of the protagonist

it does get compelling and Gucci does push the thread forward by double posting to keep the drama going. The phrase, "not good craft" is repeated too much and loses it's power after a page or two... the twist of using an Affleck movie as an example of worse telling, was a good twist. Pointing out how Affleck already know who he is and doesn't need an introduction

Quote:
Just outside Philly, 30-something Jack Cunningham works construction, lives alone, and drinks on the daily. We get a good idea of what this manís life is like when he strolls into a bar after workÖ on Thanksgiving. Problem with booze? Check.
this genius level of writing allows the Affleck to not shave for the production and "act like he's drunk" ... very smart

I know I'm into the 2nd act on this one, but do wonder what reveals we have for JoeNYC's script pages or if Gucci is actually dating his manager and that why they love his work... so many questions,, I can't wait

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Old 01-26-2020, 09:03 AM   #120
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Default Re: Note To Gucci: Mazin's Point On "Summing Up Your Characters"

Anyone who finds themselves constantly summing up their characters needs to be asking themselves why they're doing that.

Quentin Tarantino does it because over-writing, over-explaining is built into his DNA. That's why his first draft of Django was like 300 pages or whatever it was. He's an overly generous writer. It's mischaracterizing Tarantino's character summations to call them "cheating," because he doesn't rely solely on the summations to define his characters, he does that through action and dialogue as good as anyone has ever done it.

So if you're Quentin Tarantino and you sum up your characters as a symptom of having a very fertile, creative, generous mind, then you're in good shape, because it means you probably do everything else in the script with a level of mastery that will garner you sales, recognition, awards and millions of dollars.

But I'd venture a guess that most people sum up their characters as a crutch, because they feel insecure about readers seeing the characters the way the writer wants them to.

So let's go back to the first post for a minute and take a look at what's actually wrong with the example that got passed around:

Tess makes a beeline for the only EMPTY STOOL, but --

REX VARNER (40s, as*hole to the core) plops his ass down on it before she can get there... and then SMIRKS as he raises his Budweiser in a fake toast to her.

REX: Next time, sweetheart.”


To analyze just these few sentences as a litmus test for bad screenwriting is bad practice. If that's all we're allowing ourselves here, then these are my thoughts.

The problem here isn't really that Rex is summarized, it's that he's and this scene are dull cliches. If Rex is an important enough character to have a name then he should either be more than "an as*hole to the core", or he should do enough as*hole stuff that you don't need to summarize him in his character intro.

If Rex actually is going to have role of value as an "as*hole to the core," in the script then his introductory action needs to paint him as more of an as*hole than taking another character's seat at a public bar as well. That action doesn't even live up to the "as*hole to the core," tag; that's using it as a crutch. So when a script like the one this moment exists in gets rejected, it won't be because the summary exists, it'll be because of the greater problems that this particular summary symptomizes.

It's as simple as that.

Last edited by SteveD : 01-26-2020 at 09:20 AM.
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