How risky is this move?

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  • How risky is this move?

    Long story (kinda) short:
    • Got new managers a few weeks back.

      They wanted 10 ideas for a new spec.

      They rejected my first round.

      I wrote 10 more.

      They liked two from the new list; I developed beat sheets.

      None of the beat sheets met with their full approval; only certain aspects for each.

      I work on combining elements from the two into a new story.

      There are inherent problems, so I start spit balling new elements with them to consider. They approve.


    Now here's where it gets interesting / kinda problematic. The new concepts I started pitching them -- and they responded to favorably -- are from an older project I'd written.

    That in and of itself isn't the problem...but the managers were insistent they didn't want to focus on any of my older work as my next spec. (I've found this attitude to be endemic with peeps at the larger firms for some reason....)

    So here's the question: do I admit that certain aspects come from an older script or just continue on my merry way as if it's brand-spanking-new?

    I should mention, too, that they read a list of project synopses but didn't seem to notice that concepts I was pitching them came from an older work.

    The only thing holding me back from telling them what's what is I have no idea how firm their "no-older-material" mandate is -- even if it's just certain aspects I'm taking.

    Thoughts, opinions, musings and worthless two cents welcome. Thanks.

  • #2
    Re: How risky is this move?

    Did anyone read the old spec (as in reps, producers, etc)? If not, then why say anything? Just ride the wave of enthusiasm
    http://twitter.com/JohnSwetnam

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    • #3
      Re: How risky is this move?

      Originally posted by Johnny Boy View Post
      Did anyone read the old spec (as in reps, producers, etc)? If not, then why say anything? Just ride the wave of enthusiasm
      No. I mean, my last manager read it, yeah, but that was it. No exposure to producers or agents.

      I'm all for riding the wave, but I just worry that at some point their memory might be jogged and if they look at the synopses list, they'll see a similarity. Of course, I suppose there are ways to cover for that....

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How risky is this move?

        Don't bring it up. You'd just create complications where none existed before.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How risky is this move?

          Yeah, you're probably right. Thanks for validating my thought-process, guys....

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How risky is this move?

            If this is what I have to look forward to with mgrs/agents, skip 'em. I'm just going to remain my spec-writing machine, writing stuff for myself, getting better and better, till one clicks directly with a producer.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How risky is this move?

              The least-productive period of my writing career was fed in part by a very frustrating back-and-forth with my agent and manager about what I should be writing.

              I basically vowed to myself that I'm never going to go through that process again. If I have two or three ideas, I'll involve them in the process - their knowledge of what other projects are in development is important.

              But I know lots and lots of writers who have spent a year or longer going back and forth with their rep about what they should be writing. None of them seemed happy about the process or the results. One producer I know made a useful point when I was banging my head against the wall, words to the effect of, "If your rep isn't excited about the projects you're excited about writing, then you need to consider if they're the right rep for you."

              I don't think most agents understand how soul-killing the process of going back and forth on ideas can be.

              That being said, look, you need to understand what a commercial idea looks like. Your rep's knowledge of aspects of the business that you may not know is important.

              But wow, the prospect of coming up with ten ideas, going to your rep, coming back, coming up with ten more. It makes me sick just thinking about it.

              Which is not to say that your rep doesn't necessarily know what he or she is talking about. My agent had some specific ideas about what she felt she could sell. I wasn't coming up with anything that made us both happy in that ballpark. Then last year's black list comes out, seven or eight months later, and there's a script she repped on it, which sold, and wow, I can see how that writer took the same advice she was giving me and made it work.

              But for myself, the process was so painful that I had to step out of it. I made a decision that I'm always going to be writing SOMETHING. Yes, I'll keep looking for that high-concept idea, but you know ... if I do that at the expense of actually writing things my soul slowly withers away.

              Your mileage may vary.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How risky is this move?

                Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                The least-productive period of my writing career was fed in part by a very frustrating back-and-forth with my agent and manager about what I should be writing.

                I basically vowed to myself that I'm never going to go through that process again. If I have two or three ideas, I'll involve them in the process - their knowledge of what other projects are in development is important.

                But I know lots and lots of writers who have spent a year or longer going back and forth with their rep about what they should be writing. None of them seemed happy about the process or the results. One producer I know made a useful point when I was banging my head against the wall, words to the effect of, "If your rep isn't excited about the projects you're excited about writing, then you need to consider if they're the right rep for you."

                I don't think most agents understand how soul-killing the process of going back and forth on ideas can be.

                That being said, look, you need to understand what a commercial idea looks like. Your rep's knowledge of aspects of the business that you may not know is important.

                But wow, the prospect of coming up with ten ideas, going to your rep, coming back, coming up with ten more. It makes me sick just thinking about it.

                Which is not to say that your rep doesn't necessarily know what he or she is talking about. My agent had some specific ideas about what she felt she could sell. I wasn't coming up with anything that made us both happy in that ballpark. Then last year's black list comes out, seven or eight months later, and there's a script she repped on it, which sold, and wow, I can see how that writer took the same advice she was giving me and made it work.

                But for myself, the process was so painful that I had to step out of it. I made a decision that I'm always going to be writing SOMETHING. Yes, I'll keep looking for that high-concept idea, but you know ... if I do that at the expense of actually writing things my soul slowly withers away.

                Your mileage may vary.
                I've been with one of the biggest management firms in the business (and am with another presently), but have also signed with one-man-band operations. Without fail, the managers at the larger firms have pulled this sort of crap on me. Aside from it being an ego-thing, I really don't understand the rationale. Especially if the older projects haven't been seen around town.

                And when you ask why, of course they never have a reasonable answer aside from, "It's good to start something new." I think they just hate the prospect of sloppy-seconds.

                But since my last manager, whom I respect a great deal and didn't wanna leave in the first place (long story there....), helped me sign with these guys, I promised I'd be a good boy and play their game.

                I think what cooked my goose with the first set of ideas was I literally turned 'em in within three hours of the assignment to do so. That's another thing -- managers at big firms always hate that. They assume you didn't put any thought into it. Last manager -- the solo act -- always loved how quickly I turned stuff around. And the even more ironic part was that when I had friends compare and contrast the two sets of ideas, they all liked the ones from the first set!

                Not that it's all bad: they set up a ton of meetings for me in a couple weeks based on an older script of mine. That fvcking UNKNOWN movie pretty much torpedoed my spec's chances in the market (right now, at least), but they ARE hustling on my behalf thus far. I just hope if / when something strikes for me, they'll kinda leave me to my own devices as far as developing and writing stuff goes....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How risky is this move?

                  I can relate to MacG and Ronaldinho's frustrations.

                  I'm a side project of two big managers at a big company. And we all agreed to start over on Draft 2 of my script starting from logline, one pager, three pager, etc. And while some of the delay has to do with the holidays, it's taken 2 months to beat out a 15 page treatment... that will now take me 3 weeks to write in script form.

                  That being said, I do appreciate their knowledge of what works and what doesn't. And trust their judgment on things. But it would've been so much easier if I just kidnapped them into a hotel room one day and not let them leave until I banged out a 10 page outline. That would save me a lot of time and energy and frustration... and 100 emails with their assts to lock down times for a phone call that lasts 15 minutes.
                  Last edited by Hamboogul; 03-19-2011, 11:22 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How risky is this move?

                    Originally posted by MacG View Post
                    Long story (kinda) short:
                    • Got new managers a few weeks back.

                      They wanted 10 ideas for a new spec.

                      They rejected my first round.

                      I wrote 10 more.

                      They liked two from the new list; I developed beat sheets.

                      None of the beat sheets met with their full approval; only certain aspects for each.

                      I work on combining elements from the two into a new story.

                      There are inherent problems, so I start spit balling new elements with them to consider. They approve.

                    Now here's where it gets interesting / kinda problematic. The new concepts I started pitching them -- and they responded to favorably -- are from an older project I'd written.

                    1. That in and of itself isn't the problem...but the managers were insistent they didn't want to focus on any of my older work as my next spec. (I've found this attitude to be endemic with peeps at the larger firms for some reason....)

                    2. So here's the question: do I admit that certain aspects come from an older script or just continue on my merry way as if it's brand-spanking-new?

                    3. I should mention, too, that they read a list of project synopses but didn't seem to notice that concepts I was pitching them came from an older work.

                    4. The only thing holding me back from telling them what's what is I have no idea how firm their "no-older-material" mandate is -- even if it's just certain aspects I'm taking.

                    Thoughts, opinions, musings and worthless two cents welcome. Thanks.
                    1. Perhaps your older work is not as good, or the ideas are not sellable ideas, so why waste the time?

                    2. How much of the idea? Is it from another script that has already been exposed to the town? If so, that is a bad idea. Can you imagine those calls (Hey, Bob has another script the sun is going to explode and destroy earth......yeah yeah, just like his last one, but different.)

                    3. Perhaps they didn't read all of your older scripts yet?

                    4. Tell them.
                    twitter.com/mbotti

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How risky is this move?

                      Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                      The least-productive period of my writing career was fed in part by a very frustrating back-and-forth with my agent and manager about what I should be writing.

                      I basically vowed to myself that I'm never going to go through that process again. If I have two or three ideas, I'll involve them in the process - their knowledge of what other projects are in development is important.

                      But I know lots and lots of writers who have spent a year or longer going back and forth with their rep about what they should be writing. None of them seemed happy about the process or the results. One producer I know made a useful point when I was banging my head against the wall, words to the effect of, "If your rep isn't excited about the projects you're excited about writing, then you need to consider if they're the right rep for you."

                      I don't think most agents understand how soul-killing the process of going back and forth on ideas can be.

                      That being said, look, you need to understand what a commercial idea looks like. Your rep's knowledge of aspects of the business that you may not know is important.

                      But wow, the prospect of coming up with ten ideas, going to your rep, coming back, coming up with ten more. It makes me sick just thinking about it.

                      Which is not to say that your rep doesn't necessarily know what he or she is talking about. My agent had some specific ideas about what she felt she could sell. I wasn't coming up with anything that made us both happy in that ballpark. Then last year's black list comes out, seven or eight months later, and there's a script she repped on it, which sold, and wow, I can see how that writer took the same advice she was giving me and made it work.

                      But for myself, the process was so painful that I had to step out of it. I made a decision that I'm always going to be writing SOMETHING. Yes, I'll keep looking for that high-concept idea, but you know ... if I do that at the expense of actually writing things my soul slowly withers away.

                      Your mileage may vary.
                      It's equally as difficult for the reps. We want you writing. Part of being a good manager is helping to come up with that idea for you to write.

                      And while soul crushing, you can still be off writing your little quirky movie while still sending 10 ideas or more per week into your reps.
                      twitter.com/mbotti

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How risky is this move?

                        is sending in 10 ideas per week or more to a rep standard?
                        One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

                        The Fiction Story Room

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How risky is this move?

                          Originally posted by Juno Styles View Post
                          is sending in 10 ideas per week or more to a rep standard?
                          I don't know if it's standard, but something similar happened to me with a well known HW management/production company a few years ago (may have been the same one as McG's).

                          They liked two of my scripts, but asked me to submit 10 new one liner ideas. I had 9 and was stumped for the 10th. In frustration, I came up with something crappy to fill out the list. This, of course, was the one they picked and we went on a year long treatment writing quest which eventually petered out.

                          I didn't get signed and nothing came of it, but it was a very interesting experience.
                          TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

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                          • #14
                            Re: How risky is this move?

                            10 or more per week? That's over 520 ideas a yr.

                            Are these ideas supposed to be good enough to turn into marketable spec scripts? Cuz that's not humanly possible.

                            "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                            ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How risky is this move?

                              There may be different kinds of reps out there.

                              But I will never get the hand holding kind. If a writer can't come up with his own ideas and scripts, why represent him?

                              And if he can come up with his own work, why mess with it? It's not that rare that the initial idea is good only for the writer as he can feel its connection to himself. He can feel and know that this idea could grow into something.

                              An idea is so easy to kill, especially at the incipient stage.

                              On the other hand, strong sounding ideas are often "unwritable" nonsense.

                              In short: a manager who chooses a client and then messes with his work doesn't seem to be very sure of his choice.

                              Maybe get different representation?

                              I'm not repped myself, nor have I ever contacted reps, so this is a collection of thoughts, not advice.
                              "Ecco il grande Zampano!"

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