Should I write my sci-fi idea?

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

    So, if 'high concept'' means highly marketable, such as (am I saying this right?) all science fiction is, then why the failure of such films at the Box Office? (The Island, King Kong)

    Someone forgot to inform the viewing public the film was high concept?

    As a quick side note, I want to be shot in public if I ever write something McDonalds attaches themselves to.

    What kind of film is NOT considered ''highly marketable''?


    I understand the term now, but still think it's abused.

    A

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

      "Highly marketable" doesn't mean guaranteed success or quality. High concept films are considered highly marketable because they have a big, simple hook that's easy to convey to the audience -- but high concept doesn't mean the movie will be good or the marketing will be successful.

      Snakes on a Plane is a high concept movie. Even its title is high concept. And the marketing department no doubt thought they'd found the perfect marketing strategy when the Internet went wild and the studio tapped into that. They were sure it would be a big hit.

      But the Internet went wild over the story of the movie's creation and the kitchiness of its title and the fun that could be had discussing it and making fun of it. People loved the idea that such a movie could get made as a big summer blockbuster -- but they clearly didn't love the idea of actually going to see it.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

        Thanks for the insight.

        What is NOT considered high concept?

        Mona Lisa smile, for example??

        A

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

          Yeah, that'd be a good example of a movie that's not high concept.

          A lot of great movies are not high concept. Casablanca's not really high concept, and it's one of the best movies ever made. I think it's THE best.

          (Speaking of the best films ever made, I think you could argue that Citizen Kane is high concept, since it begins with the death of a rich, famous, miserable, lonely man and spends the rest of the time following a reporter who tries to find out who he really was and how he became who he became.)

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

            Most movies that come out nowadays are going to be labeled high concept because that is what gets sold and made. However, those movies don't always make money.

            Example: My Super Ex-Girlfriend... high concept rom-com. I personally thought it was a great idea when I heard about it, but had a feeling it'd bomb, plus the previews looked... eh.

            Movies that aren't High Concept are usually simple movies, often times dramas, that have interesting characters and such to drive them through rather than some great hook. You might not want to see it when you hear about it, but you might love it once you've seen it because it was simply well executed.

            Movies that I've seen lately that aren't high concept... hmm... let's see...


            Garden State would be one of 'em. It's pretty damn simple. A kid comes home when his mom dies, that's all. He is emotionally numb from being on anti-depressants... ends up meeting a epileptic pathological liar (a little less simple, but still nothing super high concept about the story) and falls for her. It's what was done with this simple story that made people love it. Whether it was Natalie Portman's cute and funny character or some funny moments or some meaningful messages... whatever.

            However, despite it being a good movie and a bunch of people enjoying it, was it high concept? No. There is no crazy hook, unless you consider meeting this somewhat nuts girl a hook. You can't really imagine much about the movie through a logline to get you loving the movie.

            So that's kind of the differenec.e..

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

              Appreciate the clarity. I'll never ask again!

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                Originally posted by alex whitmer
                So, if 'high concept'' means highly marketable, such as (am I saying this right?) all science fiction is
                All science fiction isn't high concept. However, a fair number of science fiction short stories are concept-driven, while novel length SF tends to be far more character and world oriented.

                If you want a primer on what high concept is, you could do worse than to read some SF short story collections by some of the outstanding writers in the field: Harlan Ellison; Gene Wolfe; Ted Sturgeon; Roger Zelazny.

                As to the original poster's question: it's perfectly fine to write SF screenplays. Personally, I love science fiction, but there is a wide gulf between the SF I read and the SF that gets made into films and shown on the big screen.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                  refriedwhiskey says, "And, having phrased the question that way, Joe, you got the answer you wanted."

                  -- I noticed in debates you have a tendency to twist things around to give your opinion more weight. If you noticed in my question to Michael Steven Gregory, I gave two examples to cover both worlds of independent production and studio production.

                  I slanted nothing.

                  I've received the e-mail from the professional writer that I mentioned earlier. His name is Herschel Weingrod. You may not recognize his name, but you will his films:

                  Blockbusters: "Trading Places," "Twins" and "Kindergarten Cop."

                  His other movies: "Brewster's Millions," "My Stepmother is an Alien," "Pure Luck" and "Space Jam."

                  He also produced "Falling Down," staring Michael Douglas.

                  Herschel Weingrod has been a member of the Guild of America since 1980 and the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (Writers Branch) since 1988.

                  He has a script consultant service called Scriptmaven.

                  http://www.scriptmaven.com/index.htm

                  And no, refried, I never used his service. So, you can't accuse him of being partial to me. This is my first contact with him.

                  Here's my complete e-mail question to him and his reply.

                  JoeNYC:

                  Hello, Mr. Weingrod:

                  I'm having a discussion on a writer's message board and I'm wondering if you could answer a question. Of course, I'll quote you by name, provide a link to your web site and let them know about your available service:

                  When a Writer is writing on spec, should he consider the budget in relation to the genre and market?

                  For example, if they were writing a small story with a limited market, would they be conscious of the fact not to have budget busters, such as a lot of characters and locations, or would they just write their vision without thinking about the budget and let the eventual producer handle any budget problems that might arise?

                  What if it were a mainstream spec for studio consideration? Should they still keep budget in mind for the genre and market they're writing for?

                  I believe a writer must also know about the business side, but others disagree and think a writer has enough problems with creating a story and shouldn't worry about the budget, saying a producer would handle this aspect.

                  Your answer, either way, would be a big help.

                  Thank you,

                  Joe Stevens

                  HERSCHEL WEINGROD:

                  You pose a good question, both philosophically and practically. The least well-kept secret in Hollywood is that nobody works without a script, a fact which is responsible for the historic fear, contempt, and hatred that Hollywood has for the screenwriter.

                  As Robert Town once pointed out:

                  "Most screenwriters have never been involved in motion picture production and production personnel know this. They therefore know that a screenplay is a peculiar act of prophecy by someone who's no more licensed to work with a crystal ball than he is experienced in working on a film. That he would presume to write something that's going to cost $100, on locations that may or may not exist, in weather conditions that might be impossible to shoot in, only confirms their suspicions about the writer's arrogance."

                  On the practical side, however, I would tend to agree with you - the more that the writer knows about filmmaking, including the business side, the better.

                  "Let the producer handle it" is a formula for disaster.

                  Yes, big-time "franchise" genre films have enormous budgets - and probably need them in order to be "event" films. But what was the last original screenplay, not based on a sequel or remake or comic book or amusement-park ride, that got made much less became a success?

                  PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN? X-MEN? SPIDER MAN? OCEANS 11? MISSION IMPOSSIBLE?

                  These weren't spec sales; they were worldwide marketing opportunities with pre-sold titles.

                  Knowledge of the below-the-line costs can be quite important - if a film can be made "for a price," it's a much more attractive project.

                  Herschel Weingrod

                  I just want to repeat something because I know refried is going to pick a line out of Weingrod's reply and twist it around.

                  "On the practical side, however, I would tend to agree with you - the more that the writer knows about filmmaking, including the business side, the better. 'Let the producer handle it' is a formula for disaster."

                  "Knowledge of the below-the-line cost can be quite important - if a film can be made 'for a price,' it's a much more attractive project."

                  DD members who think my opinion is "F'n waaay off base":

                  Furry Mound. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                  Refriedwhiskey. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                  Sara. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                  vig. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                  writerly. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                  ScriptwriterNYC. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                  Pickles. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                  Those who believe my opinion has merit:

                  Herschel Weingrod. Total domestic Box Office earnings in 80s dollars: 500,000,000.

                  Hey, refriedwhiskey -- mission accomplished!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                    By using this take as your argument, you only show yourself to be desparate. I never said that a writer should not pay attention to the business.

                    And anyway, this is ONE MAN, with ONE OPINE. Just like you. He's successful, sure, but is that the benchmark you use to see how "right" someone is? Money? There are a lot of people out there, making money on films, and they're not all right.

                    That's a weak and childish approach to use to bolster up your sagging argument.

                    But hey, if you wanted to look like a total embittered dork, then mission accomplished!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                      Well, Furry, your post was a class act, he says sarcastically.

                      "desparate"?

                      I got the whole DD community piling on saying my opinion is "F'n waay off base."

                      So, I find people with credibility to back up my opinion and now I'm percieved as desparate. What did you expect me to do? Roll over and crawl into a corner.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                        I am 100% impartial to this difference of opinion, but I sure enjoyed reading the email from Herschel. What an eye opener with that view 'prouction' has on the writer. Guess we do conjure up some pretty un-realistic fantacies - nothing a butt-load of money can't fix - if you have it to spend.

                        Thanks for the post. Now I need to start over - again!

                        A

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                          Joe, I did a five minute search and came up with three pros, two writers, one producer. Two out of three say don't be overly concerned with budget.

                          http://www.finaldraft.com/products/a...y-excerpts.php

                          Does the writer need to be thinking about budget and/or marketplace when writing a spec script?

                          J. Fasano: This is tough. You can think about market so much you fool yourself into thinking you have a slam dunk on premise when the script is too weak to sell. Ultimately, I think the writer should sit down and write whatever the hell he wants. Look at it this way, if you write something you've tailored to what you think is the market and it doesn't sell, you feel like you wasted a half a year. But if you wrote a great script on what you wanted, and no one bought it, at least you're proud of it - and maybe you can sell it later, or adapt it for television, or even make it yourself on DV or something.

                          As for budgets, I directed my first 35mm feature film on a $52,000 budget, and have written projects that cost almost one hundred million. The cost of the movie is the level of elements. First find a really great story you want to tell. Tell it right and you will get something out of it.


                          C. Shyer: Short answer: Yes.

                          http://www.hollywoodlitsales.com/cf/...cfm?intID=3044

                          The following is an interview with Jim Wedaa, who is the Executive Vice President at The Jacobson Company. As a producer, Jim has been responsible for the sale of more than a dozen spec scripts.

                          SSSD: Should writers be thinking about budget when they're writing a screenplay?

                          WEDAA: No, I mean I think that's something for a producer to do. I mean, if you're going to write an eighty million dollar movie, you're going to write an eighty million dollar movie. If you're writing an event movie, great, don't worry about the budget. It's going to be expensive no matter what. You know it's not the writers job; that's the producers job and the studio's job to tell you what the project should be. Write the movie. You want to write as well as you can, and, if down the road somebody says, "I love this idea, but not for fifty million dollars, we have to write it for a forty million dollar budget," well then, you re-write for a forty million dollar budget, don't constrain yourself creatively."

                          As Furry correctly suspected, opinions are as varied from pro to pro as they are among us zeros, tyvm. And, in the end, each writer should do what truly feels right to him or her.
                          Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                            I noticed in debates you have a tendency to twist things around to give your opinion more weight.
                            I notice that when someone points out a flaw in your argument, you have a tendency to accuse them of twisting your words. Even when they've quoted you, cut-and-paste verbatim, from your own post. This is not the first time you've done it.

                            Of course, I'll quote you by name, provide a link to your web site and let them know about your available service:
                            Nah, no reason at all he'd be partial to you and want to tell you what you wanted to hear.

                            (And, yeah, it would've been clear to him what you wanted to hear from the way you phrased the questions.)

                            a small story with a limited market
                            As was already stated, that doesn't describe a high-concept science fiction spec.

                            a mainstream spec for studio consideration
                            Again, not a high-concept science fiction spec.

                            Joe, why didn't you ask him specifically about a writer trying to break in with a high-concept science fiction spec? Why did you limit your examples to a small film with a limited audience, or a mainstream film?

                            Because you wanted to be as certain as possible that this guy would come back with the answer you wanted to hear. Same reason you told him you were asking because you were in a debate on a writing board -- and which side you had taken.

                            Furry Mound. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                            Refriedwhiskey. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                            Sara. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                            vig. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                            writerly. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                            ScriptwriterNYC. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0

                            Pickles. Total domestic Box Office earnings: 0
                            Wow. First off, you don't know all of the above is true, because you don't know for sure who all of the above people are or what their credentials might be.

                            Second: Only you, Joe, could look at a long list of people who disagree with you and conclude that it somehow proved you were right and they were wrong.

                            I'm glad you found a pro who agrees with you, even if he hasn't had a screen credit in a decade and these days makes his living charging newbies to critique their scripts.

                            But Sara spent three minutes with Google and found two pros who disagree with you. I suspect if we wanted to devote a lot of time to this, each side of this debate could find a lot of pros who support their position.

                            Why is this so important to you, Joe? Why do you feel you've got to "shut up the opposing view," as you phrased it earlier? Why have you gone to all this trouble?

                            Why can't you just say to yourself "Well, a lot of people disagree with my opinion, and I disagree with them, and that's fine"?

                            I have a theory: You don't really care that much about whether or not a new writer working on a spec keeps the budget in mind. That's not why you first posted in this thread. You first posted in this thread because you were on a self-described "mission" to prove I'm a "poser." You were looking for a post of mine so you could attack it, because you believed that your disagreeing with me would somehow make me look like a poser. You found my post in this thread and decided it would do for your purposes.

                            And that's why you can't just say "Okay, fine. I tried. I disagree; your mileage may vary." That's why you feel you have to "shut up the opposing view." Because, for you, this isn't about discussing screenwriting philosophies. For you, it's about a vendetta. And you won't feel your "mission" is accomplished unless you feel like you've "won" the argument.

                            Which is why, having mistakenly concluded that you had won conclusively -- you ended your post with "Hey, refriedwhiskey -- mission accomplished!"

                            I think that's really kind of pathetic and sad. But if you'd like to ask the other participants in this thread if they believe you've accomplished your mission of making me look like a poser, then I think you should definitely go for it.
                            Last edited by refriedwhiskey; 09-04-2006, 05:29 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                              To me, Fasano is talking more philosophical than practical.

                              WEDAA: "No, I mean I think that's something for a producer to do."

                              Sara, direct question, yes or no, seriously, if you're writing a teen romantic comedy, would you go for it and disregard budget in order to have a show case script, thinking if it doesn't garner a producer's interest because it's too expensive it could be used as a writing sample.

                              A sample that shows you don't have a clue about the business, writing an expensive teen romantic comedy, which would put studios at more of a risk.

                              I'm writing a teen script and I could disregard budget and go for it. But, I want to make it appealing to buyers, as Mr. Weingrod says, "if a film can be made 'for a price,' it's a much more attractive project."

                              I'm not going to disregard budget and have budget busters in their, thinking it's okay because a producer will work with me in cutting it down to make it less of a risk. I rather show I understand the business and do that before I ask a producer to buy it.

                              Can you answer this question honestly, Sara?

                              PS

                              refried, there are no mainstream films that are high concept?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Should I write my sci-fi idea?

                                I got the whole DD community piling on saying my opinion is "F'n waay off base."
                                By the way, Joe: The above shows just how far out of proportion you've blown this whole debate.

                                One poster says you're "F'n way off base," several others disagree with your opinion, and suddenly you've got "the whole DD community piling on"?

                                Jesus. Talk about a martyr complex. You must've taken some melodrama classes in between the ones on screenwriting.

                                PS

                                refried, there are no mainstream films that are high concept?
                                P.S.

                                Of course there are. But you didn't go near the term "high concept" in your questions to Mr. Weingrod, because you were afraid that might lead him to give you an answer you didn't want.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X