And the Oscar goes to...

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  • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

    Originally posted by sarajb View Post
    sc mentioned this a few posts back, and it's certainly one of the other pieces of the equation. But, since there are fewer women in power, it's a lesser factor. Oh, the irony. Then again, once there are more women in power the tendency for some women to sabotage other women should subside cuz it won't be such a novelty, and it'll still be a lesser factor. Wa-cha!

    I don't know Sara -- in all industries there are women at different levels of ladder. When you rise up that ladder, getting a swat down from anyone of them -- not to mention what they say about you to men in power further up the ladder -- it's a problem.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
      I don't know Sara -- in all industries there are women at different levels of ladder. When you rise up that ladder, getting a swat down from anyone of them -- not to mention what they say about you to men in power further up the ladder -- it's a problem.
      Yes, it is a problem, not one you or I can do anything about; neither is sexism, I guess. Let them do what they will. We only have to be our awesome selves.
      Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

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      • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

        Originally posted by sarajb View Post
        Yes, it is a problem, not one you or I can do anything about; neither is sexism, I guess. Let them do what they will. We only have to be our awesome selves.
        Well, I agree to a point but some of these woman-to-woman issues also perpetuate some of the sexist views men have. They feed into each other.

        When there's an inter-office cat fight going on, the men notice. Or, a woman's style of management by consensus, the hesitancy to take action out of fear of "hurting feelings," even the going to the bathroom together thing, men notice this stuff. And I've been told by businessmen this type of behavior makes them hesitant to put women in certain positions.

        ETA: Sorry, I got a phone call and hit post before I finished my thought.

        I think having honest discussions about this issue, with women and men, even on line, can in a small way "do something about it."
        Last edited by sc111; 03-12-2010, 03:26 PM.
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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        • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

          Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
          You're picking on the wrong guy. Scorsese could make Maurice or Howard's End any day of the week (as evidenced by his period masterpiece, The Age Of Innocence). James Ivory, in a million years, could not make Goodfellas.

          Edited to add: Not to mention the fact that Scorsese directed one of the greatest feminist roles of all time (Ellen Burstyn's Oscar winning role in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore). Boy are you barking up the wrong tree.



          On the topic of sexism, I wonder what some of the female posters here would make of this quote:

          "The boys want to hire me. The boys are excited about my pitches. The problem is the women who are not supportive of other women. There are some women in positions of power who like being the only girl in the room, so to speak. They want to have that attention, they don't want another women competing with them. We, as women, have to talk about supporting each other.-

          - Sanaa Hamri (Director, Sisterhood Of The Traveling Pants 2, Just Wright)
          I don't think I'm picking on the wrong guy at all. I like Alice a lot. Age of Innocence is well made, but in my opinion not as strong as Ivory's best work or Campion's Portrait of A Lady. I would agree that he has shown much more variety in his career than James Ivory. And I would say he's made more "great" films. But those two films are not what his legend is built on. Is it coincidence that they are considered lesser Scorsese?

          If Martin Scorsese had spent his career making "women's pictures" like Alice and Age of Innocence -- would he be as successful? As revered? Would young filmmakers idolize him in the same way? I don't think so.

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          • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
            I think having honest discussions about this issue, with women and men, even on line, can in a small way "do something about it."
            Of course. These kind of discussions probably do help. In the trenches, however, it's a different story. Making it an issue often makes it a bigger issue and sometimes, sometimes, not calling attention to it eventually makes it a non-issue.
            Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

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            • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

              Originally posted by sc111 View Post
              There is truth in this -- she's talking about the Queen Bee syndrome - the Queen Bee wants to be the only vagina in the room.

              I've actually pointed this out to card-carrying NOW members who wanted to burn me at the stake for uttering it aloud.

              Honestly, when I started out in my "day job" career, more years ago than I'll ever cop to, those who helped me the most, who voluteered mentor-like advice, volunteered to teach me the ropes, were men.

              All except ONE woman who went to bat for me to get me a promotion: my African-American female supervisor.

              And the fact that she was African-American and a woman played into it. However, she was sabotaged by a Queen Bee. I didn't get the promotion.

              And when it became clear to both us we would always be under the thumb of Queenie (because she announced only death would remove her from her position of power), both my former supervisor and I left the company. Within two months of each other.

              I can add more on this topic but suffice to say women have - how shall I say - certain habits, certain learned behavior, in regards to other women (look at a few episodes of The Housewives of .... fill in the city) that are just as damaging to other women as male-perpetuated sexism.

              I've experienced this. My theory is that the human animal be it female or male can be corrupted by both absolute power, and absolute powerlessness. The Fear of losing power can be so dehumanizing that some will do anything to guard the power they have.

              And yes, some of the scariest women I have ever met have been self proclaimed "Feminists". I always prefer to hang with Humanists, myself.
              sigpic http://blip.fm/Peasblossom

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              • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                Originally posted by peasblossom View Post
                I've experienced this. My theory is that the human animal be it female or male can be corrupted by both absolute power, and absolute powerlessness. The Fear of losing power can be so dehumanizing that some will do anything to guard the power they have.

                And yes, some of the scariest women I have ever met have been self proclaimed "Feminists". I always prefer to hang with Humanists, myself.
                Corrupted by absolute powerlessness! Brilliant point. Thanks!
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                  On the other hand, almost every single person who has helped me establish the beginnings of my career (funding, attachments, options, and landing an agent) have been women. There have been men who have helped too, granted: Mac.H here hooked me up with a (female) writer friend of his who then recommended me (based on my script - we never actually met) to her agent, who is now my agent; Kid Charlmagne has gone out of his way to hook me up with people who could help me... there are others.

                  But those people above me - in a real position to make a difference - have been women. The script manager who fought for my script to be funded, the producer she suggested I approach (who, after nudging from said manager, approached me), the script editor, my agent(s) (both former and current), other writers with whom I've been trading scripts and critiques, and a whole host of other women have gone out of their way to help me for no reason other than they could. And wanted to.

                  I really hope I can do the same for other women should I ever find myself in a position to help.

                  That's where it starts. That's where it has to continue. But I do think the fact that this (Australia) is a largely non-commercial film industry (in that, it doesn't make money very often) takes a lot of the commerical/competitive imperatives out of the equation. Commercial industries seem to rely on a kind of ruthlessness that I'm not sure allows the best people (the best women or men) to rise to the top. Which is not to say the good guys never win in HW - sometimes they do, and there have been plenty here who qualify on both sides - but it's a tougher struggle, I suspect, or is perceived to be, which in itself might be enough to thwart budding women film makers.

                  And it certainly helps breed the queen bee (which I've been fortunate enough to avoid having to encounter on a professional level).

                  Or maybe I have met some, but I wasn't a big enough threat for them to worry about.
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                  • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                    Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                    Commercial industries seem to rely on a kind of ruthlessness that I'm not sure allows the best people (the best women or men) to rise to the top.
                    Another gem!


                    Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                    Which is not to say the good guys never win in HW - sometimes they do, and there have been plenty here who qualify on both sides - but it's a tougher struggle, I suspect, or is perceived to be, which in itself might be enough to thwart budding women film makers.
                    I suspect the nature of beast does thwart some women (and some men) in the "budding" category. Interesting point, nic.
                    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                    • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                      Hey, I discovered the solution for all that sexist BS you ladies have been dealing with.

                      http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5a5...rion-cotillard

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                      • Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                        we are so simple. ****. that's all it boils down to. and pizza.
                        You only get one chance to rewrite it 100 times.

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