WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

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  • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

    Originally posted by Terrance Mulloy View Post
    I'm done arguing or even commenting on this thread. It's Watchmen - it is what it is. We all know that. Some people are gonna love it. Some are gonna hate it with a passion. It's never going to be better than the novel, and that was never Hayter, Tse, Snyder or Levin's intention.

    But I'll say this --

    I think it takes some balls writing an open letter like Hayter did. You can't please everyone, and when you do something brash like that, it's certainly going to garner a ton of attacks over the internet. Fanboys, trolls, whatever. Love him or hate him, I think his intentions were 100% genuine. All he was asking was that the fans shell out another $10 so the film can carry on through the crucial second week at the BO. Warner execs took a considerable risk doing this film, so naturally they'll be watching every penny.

    How was that desperate?

    Granted, he's got a fair amount of his rep riding on the success of this film - but just because he actually gives a sh!t, doesn't mean he's a money grovelling schmuck.

    I find a lot of the bias against this film, somewhat baffling. Most of the time, we all sit around and complain that Hollywood do nothing but churn out the same old stories, rehashed and repackaged, with a fresh coat of cheap paint for the masses. So when some people in Hollywood actually take a risk, and try something new which defies the norm, what do we do? We complain about it. And you know what - a lot of those rabid Comicon fanboy types are a fvcking pain in the ass. They need to just get over it, and deal with it.

    I'm out. Cue the violins.

    I agree 100%. Hayter put nearly a decade in writing the script (Alex Tse helped too), and I feel, despite some cuts that will be restored in the director's version, this film is truly beautiful. It had to be made, because after 20 years of superhero tentpole films, sooner or later, some people are going to be tired of the usual "get powers, fight and defeat the baddie, save the world/city and get the girl" routine.

    Sure, the hatred towards the film has been...vicious. A.O. Scott of the NY Times noted that maybe it's time to grow up, but in the recent summary in this week's movie listings, he noted that a lot people "did watch the Watchmen" but wanted to know why?

    The film and GN are a deconstruction of the superhero archetype, injected with a maturity hormone, a celebration of the comic book, which has been misunderstood and mistreated by its' birth country, a subversive and necessary funhouse mirror that focused on society, exposing our flaws, inanities and complexities.

    Damn the haters. They can watch "Witch Mountain". "Watchmen: The Film" is a classic already.
    "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

    "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

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    • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

      Originally posted by vmf View Post
      I'm calm and actually a bit surprised that this flashy, yet purely surface-level, Zack Snyder-driven adaptation of Watchmen is turning into both a critical and commercial flop - there is a God (and he doesn't have a blue penis)!

      How the hell is it a flop? 55.7 isn't maybe "300" money, but it's decent.
      Last edited by Madbandit; 03-14-2009, 07:16 AM.
      "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

      "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

      Comment


      • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

        All of the Alan Moore film adaptations underwhelmed in the US. V FOR VENDETTA did alright overseas, but still no record-breaker.

        Did everyone actually believe this would even sniff $200 million domestic? Not me...B.O. hopes went way too high for this somewhere along the line.

        Alan Moore's work just isn't as rich a bounty as Frank Miller's if you're investing in adapting a graphic novel for the screen...it just isn't. Never has been either...Miller's made for movies...Moore's a bore off the written page.

        Moore is a better writer. Miller is much-much better at mastering the visual medium...Frank's work moves like movies(aside from THE SPIRIT...not really his baby project like his original stuff)...Moore's really doesn't.


        Too much hype for this Moore adapt...right from the start. vmf is tripping over his own fanboy feet, as usual, but honestly...how in the world could so many fans of the book expect this to even be a blip on the radar screen in terms of posting a serious B.O.#?

        $200 mil US would've shocked me...really. I thought the film was fine...liked it a lot...just not a world-beater money-wise. Studios aren't idiots....they know the #'s on Moore's stuff. Miller is the bigger property in movieworld.
        sigpic

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        • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

          Yo Madfanboy, did you even read the link I posted? Almost an 80% drop in BO from the first Friday to the second - Snyder just set a new record for big budget ineptitude.

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          • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

            Originally posted by vmf View Post
            Yo Madfanboy, did you even read the link I posted? Almost an 80% drop in BO from the first Friday to the second - Snyder just set a new record for big budget ineptitude.

            What's the hell is your problem? I don't expect the film to do Dark Knight money, and being a schoolyard **** doesn't make you any better than me.
            "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

            "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

            Comment


            • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

              WARNER BROS/DC still have plenty of other big farts coming up...GL is automatic $225 million...BATMAN 3 is $350 guaranteed...Warner's got plenty of prospects....no need to assume they counted on WATCHMEN to be their "big one." Just one graphic novel...not even one of their franchise properties.
              sigpic

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              • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                Originally posted by Adam Isaac View Post
                All of the Alan Moore film adaptations underwhelmed in the US. V FOR VENDETTA did alright overseas, but still no record-breaker.

                Did everyone actually believe this would even sniff $200 million domestic? Not me...B.O. hopes went way too high for this somewhere along the line.

                Alan Moore's work just isn't as rich a bounty as Frank Miller's if you're investing in adapting a graphic novel for the screen...it just isn't. Never has been either...Miller's made for movies...Moore's a bore off the written page.

                Moore is a better writer. Miller is much-much better at mastering the visual medium...Frank's work moves like movies(aside from THE SPIRIT...not really his baby project like his original stuff)...Moore's really doesn't.


                Too much hype for this Moore adapt...right from the start. vmf is tripping over his own fanboy feet, as usual, but honestly...how in the world could so many fans of the book expect this to even be a blip on the radar screen in terms of posting a serious B.O.#?

                $200 mil US would've shocked me...really. I thought the film was fine...liked it a lot...just not a world-beater money-wise. Studios aren't idiots....they know the #'s on Moore's stuff. Miller is the bigger property in movieworld.
                Agree. I thought "Watchmen" was the anti-blockbuster, and that's all right. If the average moviegoer doesn't get it, it makes a little happy that I use my brain more often.
                "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

                "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

                Comment


                • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                  Originally posted by Madbandit View Post
                  What's the hell is your problem? I don't expect the film to do Dark Knight money, and being a schoolyard **** doesn't make you any better than me.

                  He likes vampires.

                  This comic could save your life...
                  Last edited by Adam Isaac; 03-14-2009, 07:48 AM.
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                  • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                    Originally posted by Adam Isaac View Post
                    WARNER BROS/DC still have plenty of other big farts coming up...GL is automatic $225 million...BATMAN 3 is $350 guaranteed...Warner's got plenty of prospects....no need to assume they counted on WATCHMEN to be their "big one." Just one graphic novel...not even one of their franchise properties.

                    Bingo.
                    "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

                    "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

                    Comment


                    • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                      Originally posted by Madbandit View Post
                      If the average moviegoer doesn't get it, it makes a little happy that I use my brain more often.
                      Ah, the familiar refrain of the wounded fanboy.

                      Yes, you're the smartest man in America and the reason the dumbed-down movie adapation flopped horribly at the box office is because only you could appreciate Snyder's incredible vision.

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                      • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                        Originally posted by Naudikom View Post
                        Might make Moore rethink his sh*tty attitude about Hollywood.
                        As a movie lover and a huge fan of Moore's writing, it's really frustrating that he doesn't want to work with Hollywood but I hardly think it's a "****ty attitude." If a company owned your work outright and could do as they pleased with it without any input from you I think you might have a bad attitude about the system too. If I had written the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and saw it turned into "LXG" I think I would have a really ****ty attitude about the whole thing too!

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                        • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                          graphic novels simply shouldnt be put on screen, they're two entirely different mediums. it's one thing to interpret a character from a bunch of different stories, ad TDK and spidey films did, but once you try to put what you see on the pages on the screen it inevitably fails.

                          i didnt like sin city at all, 300 was more fun but pretty empty and meaningless, and let's not even talk about LXG or watchmen. the only one that i think was pretty good was V for vendetta which took some pretty big liberties and had two fantastic actors.

                          but for the most part, the dialogue that is written on page should not be heard on screen, the images you see shouldn't be exactly replicated, and certain concepts that are alluded to can never be expressed in a movie.

                          this movie felt shallow, empty and devoid of any real meaning. i didn't give a damn about any of the characters, didnt find any of their struggles to be worthwhile, never felt connected to any of it. that is not how you feel while reading the book. in the book, you actually like the comedian despite all the evil things he's done, you feel genuinely sorry for nite owl, and you feel more connected with rorschach. the dude who played ozy was an epic fail here, ozymandias was supposed to come across as a kind hearted pacifist, not a smug prick.

                          and let's not even get into the fact that they never actually called themselves the effing "Watchmen". that was just pathetic, but it's nitpicky so i'll let it go for now.

                          wow i am actually legitimately angry with this flick. i originally wasnt expecting much, but it was just soo dull so tedious so...cold that i want it to fail now. i want them to stop messing with books like this.
                          Last edited by Qazworld; 03-14-2009, 08:25 PM.

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                          • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                            wow. just saw it. uh that was pretty awful. reminded me of a slightly more serious version of Mystery Men. ive got a bunch of problems with it so i'll just list them all. but before i do, id like you guys to know i adored the graphic novel although it still has some problems and i love the cinematography and special effects for the movie. now are the things i didn't like:

                            - didnt like any of the characters. rorschach is a psycho and there was really only one or two moments i thought the guy was okay. when he and dan (nite owl 2) bonded and at the end where he's the only one with the balls to do anything. silk spectre 2 - malin akerman - her acting SUCKED. same monotone delivery every damn scene. ive seen c-list actresses on tv and direct to dvd movies act better than her. yep, the way she acted made her seem better adapted to The Hills. it doesnt help that she pushes the button in Archie that starts a fire. yeah i know she was looking for a smoke in the gn but in the movie we're like what? dan was pudgy and pathetic. no backbone all the way to the end. and he just looked so greasy and sweaty all the time like my old bio teacher. and that creeps me out more than anything. the comedian kills the woman he impregnates in vietnam, tries to rape laurie's mom, shoots tear gas directly at rioters -- i was glad he died after learning all that. who cares if he has a change of heart after learning what adrian was going to do at this point?

                            - the logic of the ending was off. kill millions to justify saving billions. that makes a case for every killer then doesnt it? people shouldnt steal, do drugs, walk alone at night, get angry at their abusive partner, make a mistake of teasing the psycho. because they help to keep us morally in check lmfao (thats sarcasm btw). the villain is like hitler. killing millions. and the "heroes" dont do a damn thing. they can kill him, punish him at least. but they let him live and kill rorschach instead. again, i really hated the characters.

                            - manhattan helping adrian build the machine was stupid. he's supposed to be a cognoscenti but he cant predict adrian's gonna blow up millions of people with it. he's the one building it - he should be able to predict all of the machine's functions. whether its free energy or a nuclear-type bomb.

                            - some of the violence was overboard. now i LOVE movie violence but the problem i had with it are in two instances: dan and silk spectre breaking bones is one. they are supposed to be the good guys. i mean isnt that what the ending tells us? these guys are too morally pure that they wont punish the guy that killed millions of people? but then theyll maim and handicap two-bit crooks? not very consistent. the movie doesn't do a decent job at all of setting a framework for how we should feel. and it was quite out of the blue as well. then rorschach killing the child abductor. i actually felt sorry for the kidnapper which is not how anyone should be made to feel. the violence was repulsive in that scene because i think all along we've been wanting to like rorschach and then this is our first real moment with him alone. and what does he do but butcher a dead body. i much prefer the gn's version.

                            - the music selection was so cheesy and on the nose. it's almost as if it was a cartoon where whenever something happened on screen, we'd hear the sound effect. they have sex after dan overcomes his impotence? hallelujah! someone dies? the sound of silence! they're going back to earth where war is imminent? that war tune everyone's heard of! ozymandias alone at the end triumphant? some godly score. there was also the first dinner with dan and laurie where the music was like, when is it going to stop. i wouldve like it if it was just dr manhattan's score throughout. itd be subtlety instead of beating us over the head with how to feel.

                            - who really cares that the comedian was laurie's father? it has no impact on the story whatsoever. actually it only makes me hate laurie's mom even more. she falls in love with her would-be rapist. and then laurie's mom is thankful it happened cuz it gave her laurie. well, that's like making rape acceptable. obviously laurie's mom had sex after the rape attempt but for her to fall in love with the rapist is a crappy social message and makes me think she's a ****ing idiot.

                            in fact, we never get a sense of the camaraderie that would later lead to laurie and dan springing rorschach from prison. it wouldve been nice if we saw them together as a team backing each other up -- you know, real friends. but for the most part we're playing catchup so that by the time they do start teaming up again i just didnt care anymore.

                            - the costumes were really ridiculous except for dr manhattan, rorschach (though his shifting mask was so damn distracting) and maybe laurie. nite owl was a second-rate batman wannabe and adrian reminded me of the superheroes from the 50s. its a real confusing paradox: we're supposed to take these guys seriously but they look like idiots you want to laugh at. sure that was the comic but it doesnt translate on screen. and nixon was ridiculous. didnt look like him at all in fact it was a caricature and that took me even more out of the story.

                            - some minor nitpicking - rorschach using hair spray with a lit up bundle of sticks. cmon, i saw that in freaking buffy the vampire slayer. they update some things but they dont update this bit of stale action? and all the swat team members get their asses torched with hair spray before even getting off a shot? lmfao.

                            - the midget with the two bodyguards wanting to get into rorschach's cell -- again, example of stupidity. rorschach just killed a guy with ****ing cooking oil and now he wants to get into rorschach's cell with only one of his bodyguards remaining? makes no goddamn sense. just cuz he's a villain doesn't mean he can be so twisted he's stupid. that's what separates a stock 1d character with even a 2d character.

                            - the plot of the movie operates on rorschach's paranoid logic. one dead comedian means theres a SERIAL mask killer? cmon. as an audience we cannot follow a psycho around because the structure will be a FAIL and this is what happened here. we follow rorschach around cuz rorschach says so but deep down we're like, why is he attacking this poor old guy with cancer? why is he bothering dr manhattan while he's apparently building something pretty damn important?

                            - adrian as the villain is so apparent i knew it first time he showed up on screen. the way he acted and spoke, even after the "assasination" attempt where the killer apparently has the worst aim in the world to shoot at someone's ****ing LEG made it more apparent adrian was behind it. or at the very least superficially again we wonder why is the assassin so inept like so many of the other movie's characters.

                            - we never get a sense of why the world accepted masked heroes who dress up like doofuses? and why did they get banned? how is it related to the main story? so because its not set up, its unnecessary exposition and becomes a dead weight throughout the movie.

                            - i didnt get any real exploration of themes of the movie. is it the passing of one generation's superheroes responsibilities to the next? is the erecticle dysfunction? is it learning to love your mom (even though you seem perfectly fine without solving this problem)?

                            - i never got any sense of danger at all from the supposed imminent world war 3. the doomsday clock was laughable and we hardly saw it at all. a bunch of generals with a rubber-nosed nixon aint gonna make me scared. newspaper headlines shouting war aint gonna do it and defcon 1 or 2 sure as hell isnt gonna do it cuz what the heck's the difference between the two anyway? how about some TANKS on the ground, some nuclear silos preparing to launch, some mass carnage by the ruskies beforehand? nope, none of that.

                            - nor did i get the sense of the millions of lives that were lost. im not even sure how many cities were involved but really who cares cuz its a big hole in each one. and really it's not even that big of a hole...maybe if the entire city was destroyed but its like just downtown. i have a downtown in l.a. that im sure the rest of the city can do without. we saw the therapist get killed but i didnt like him from the start. he took away rorschach's mask and was condescending so who cares if he dies? no sympathy was generated there and everyone else that we did see were complete strangers. remember in independence day where we saw that chick's friend get blown up on the top of the roof? now that chick i actually cared about. that's how you do it.

                            then the scene in antartica afterward...well, the heroes didnt seem to care much for the MILLIONS of lives lost. sure they had some emoting but rorschach of all people seemed to care the most and his face is behind a ****ing mask!

                            so many more but id be here all day. again, there were some parts i liked. first it took warners big balls to do this movie -- it is definitely on the edgier side of comic books. and i loved the cinematography and computer effects. and there was a cool fight scene at the prison. but look, bottomline, it mightve been acceptable in the Watchmen graphic novel for adults running around in sewed up linens but man, take a look at wanted. the graphic novel was so much like a comic book it was ridiculous -- i think it had monsters or aliens in it. but in the movie, wanted was grounded in reality and a very sleek action film that still retained the spirit. watchmen instead was way literal and the only people who love it are super geek fanboys who will wet themselves in their pants just cuz they see an onscreen replication of what was on the page. but that does not a movie make.
                            Last edited by lordmanji; 03-14-2009, 02:13 PM.

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                            • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                              Wow, are you sure you read the comic? I don't even know where to begin.

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                              • Re: WATCHMEN -- the reviews are coming in -so far so good...

                                lordmanji, I don't believe for a second you ever read the comic, and if you did I certainly don't believe you enjoyed it.

                                You hate the movie, that's fine. I'm all about hearing people's opinions. But don't come on here and say you "adored the comic", then put up a list of things you hated about the movie that were exactly the same in the comic. It shows deceit, ignorance or both.
                                For more of my thoughts on screenwriting, check out my blog.
                                Jonny Atlas Writes!

                                - Sic Semper Tyrannis.

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