A "Brave" Responsibility

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  • #16
    Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

    By the way (and those with kids already know this), but toddlers and small children are like little Terminators. I've seen them take falls and have limbs and necks bent in directions nature didn't intend...smack objects so hard that it would put an adult in the hospital...and these little fvckers just get right back up and keep going. THEY DON'T STOP!

    Seriously. Little kids are freakishly tough.

    HH

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    • #17
      Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

      Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
      Bottomline: I know my kids are going to make stupid decisions 'cause all kids make stupid decisions (hell, all parents make stupid decisions, too), but I hope/trust that whatever mistakes they make won't kill them. And I'm more worried about their teenage years and getting into cars than I am about them climbing sh!t.

      HH
      I have a teenager; everything about it sucks. The fight btw Merida and her mother, by the way, was an incredibly accurate depiction of mother/teen daughter interaction.

      Kids do indeed make stupid decisions just fine, without the help of movies. I'd bet that stupid stuff in movies (like playing chicken with 18 wheelers) gets there because the writer knew someone who did that.

      I have two brothers who spent much of the seventies and early eighties in emergency rooms because they were "playing" or "just having fun".

      And - side note - a great way to get revenge on the older brothers who tormented you as a child is to tell their children all the stupid, dangerous stuff they did at that age.

      In light of this thread, I asked my 8 year old if she thought about rock climbing and she said no, it looked scary. She was upset though, that Merida had given her mother something to eat without having any idea what it would do to her. "Mom, it could have been poison!" My daughter generously promised that should she ever consult a witch for a spell to change me, she would make sure it probably wasn't poison.

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      • #18
        Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

        So the options are:

        A) sanitize films of anything that kids could emulate
        B) make every film NC-17
        C) accept that teenagers will be stupid and if they monkey-see monkey-do a stunt and die, well, that's just too bad.

        I pick C.

        It's the same argument the Helen Lovejoys of the world have been making since at least the 1600s; that kids will see what goes on stage and will copy it and blood will flow in the streets and somebody needs to think of the children.

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        • #19
          Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

          I wish I could say kids were smarter than this, but remember what happened after Project X came out?
          Chicks Who Script podcast

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          • #20
            Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

            So we censor art because of what some kids might possibly could maybe someday do? Thanks, but no thanks.

            If you, as a parent, know your kid is impressionable and/or stupid enough to copy stunts in a film, it's your job as a parent to not let them see the film. If your kid sees something and cpies it, it is your fault you didn't raise your kids to think. Kids will do stupid things, but neither me nor my brother ever thought to go into the sewers after seeing The Goonies or launch our bikes off the side of a mountain after seeing E.T. and we were the kids that tried to build a jetpack out of fire extinguishers and fly off the roof.

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            • #21
              Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

              I just meant, kids are stupid. That's my whole point really.
              Chicks Who Script podcast

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              • #22
                Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                I'm not really arguing or pointing figures at you (Emily). In my previous post, I was using you as a figurative collective you. The Royal You if you will.

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                • #23
                  Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                  I worried about this while writing a horror film. Some people will unfortunately emulate what they see or hear. That's life. You cannot make the world safe. People are mortal and they do make stupid decisions. There are times when I change what I write because of this issue and sometimes I do not. I just tell myself if it was not you they copied it would be some one else.
                  826dk

                  ARTicles: Kick Your Creative A** Into Gear

                  DK - Script Revolution

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                  • #24
                    Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                    I only read the original post, but with Catch That Kid, we adapted a Scandinavian movie called "Climber Girl," about a girl who likes to rock climb like her old man. The movie is what it is... could've been a lot better... but has its moments.

                    We took grief from parent's groups and critics, not because of the climbing, but because the three kids rob a bank to get money to pay for her dad's operation. Of course, the bank is completely cartoony with bumbling security guards, moving robotic cameras, trained attack dogs, and a safe suspended a hundred feet in the air. Again, the movie isn't fabulous but it didn't deserve the moralistic thrashing. I'll always like Ebert for judging it like a kid instead of an old man.

                    The movie did not cause a rash of kid bank robberies.

                    This is a long-winded way of saying I don't think about what idiots might do after seeing one of my movies or reading one of my books.

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                    • #25
                      Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                      I always appreciate the different prespectives on "grey" matters like this.

                      Obviously, parents should be accountable to their kids knowing the
                      difference between movies and real life.

                      I am not saying that movies should be completely lame and "censored" (I don't even like using that word because of the uproar it creates). I am just saying that I think we need to be cognizant of the messages any given scene may have when put before our target audience...
                      especially younger children.

                      Peel back the layers of Merida's climbing; what was the purpose of that scene? Did it advance the story? Did we need it to think she was brave? Did SHE need it to think she was brave? Was there backstory that she always wanted to climb the falls and then one day without any reason--other than it being her "free day"-- she just decides to go for it?

                      Or could this scene have been cut out? Would we have thought less of her or therein, not deemed her as being brave?

                      I know she held the climb as a great achievement and thus when she tried to tell her mother about it and her mother didn't even listen to this "huge" achievement it showed even more of the strain on that relationship... but could that not have been done a different way too?

                      Compared to Nemo swimming out to the boat in open water... Nemo, on the other hand, after being coddled so much really had something to prove to his dad. Now, a fish swimming to a boat is not something I think kids are so likely to care about or certainly emulate, but that scene was also pivotal to the story.

                      I would argue the climb wasn't as necessary... and would find less fault if the act itself, was not so arguably tied to her just being "brave". For example, if the other Bear had climbed up the falls with her little brothers and Merida risked her life to climb up after them to save them, that seems like an understandable reason to risk your life... but to nearly fall to your death for what seemed to be little more than low self-esteem (otherwise what was her motivation?) seemed unwise.

                      Equating bravery into a physically dangerous act for no other reason than to prove to oneself they can do it... well , when little boys who tend to chide little girls about not being tough or brave... upon seeing BRAVE how might a little girl think to show her brother or someone else that she is indeed-- brave?

                      She can't really steal a horse and shoot arrows at targets from the hip.

                      She can't find a bear to go face to face with at the neighborhood playground.

                      And yes, most of us do not have gigantic falls for little girls to scale, but as imaginative as all kids are she can certainally PRETEND the OUTSIDE of a tunnel slide or a tree, or a rockwall not meant for climbing is the falls and take it on either by herself, or in front of those calling her out (especially if she is trying to prove something). YES, she will probably be fine... but again, perhaps more of my disappointment in this scene is that it is saying mere phsyical feats are what establish somebody as Brave. In comparison, I think her determination in just "shooting for her own hand" despite her mothers disapproval was a lot more effective in this regard.

                      In the montage that led up to the climb I thought everything else was great... it established her as a rebellious girl, being herself whenever she got the chance. As was clearly, evident from the arrow- filled targets, and her ability to ride and shoot accurately; to me, it was more than obvious that Merida on those days was who SHE believed she was meant to be-- an adventurous, brave, independent young woman/princess.
                      Get busy writin' or get busy dyin'.
                      http://www.kiva.org/team/hollywood

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                      • #26
                        Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                        To be fair, Brave was rated PG. The MPAA and Pixar recognize that it's a movie that might require some... parental guidance.

                        But honestly, I really think this is a non-issue. Think about how many kids have heard the story of Jack and the Beanstalk.
                        Ring-a-ding-ding, baby.

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                        • #27
                          Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                          Originally posted by 3brassbrads View Post
                          I always appreciate the different prespectives on "grey" matters like this.

                          Obviously, parents should be accountable to their kids knowing the
                          difference between movies and real life.

                          I am not saying that movies should be completely lame and "censored" (I don't even like using that word because of the uproar it creates). I am just saying that I think we need to be cognizant of the messages any given scene may have when put before our target audience...
                          especially younger children.

                          Peel back the layers of Merida's climbing; what was the purpose of that scene? Did it advance the story? Did we need it to think she was brave? Did SHE need it to think she was brave? Was there backstory that she always wanted to climb the falls and then one day without any reason--other than it being her "free day"-- she just decides to go for it?

                          Or could this scene have been cut out? Would we have thought less of her or therein, not deemed her as being brave?

                          I know she held the climb as a great achievement and thus when she tried to tell her mother about it and her mother didn't even listen to this "huge" achievement it showed even more of the strain on that relationship... but could that not have been done a different way too?

                          Compared to Nemo swimming out to the boat in open water... Nemo, on the other hand, after being coddled so much really had something to prove to his dad. Now, a fish swimming to a boat is not something I think kids are so likely to care about or certainly emulate, but that scene was also pivotal to the story.

                          I would argue the climb wasn't as necessary... and would find less fault if the act itself, was not so arguably tied to her just being "brave". For example, if the other Bear had climbed up the falls with her little brothers and Merida risked her life to climb up after them to save them, that seems like an understandable reason to risk your life... but to nearly fall to your death for what seemed to be little more than low self-esteem (otherwise what was her motivation?) seemed unwise.

                          Equating bravery into a physically dangerous act for no other reason than to prove to oneself they can do it... well , when little boys who tend to chide little girls about not being tough or brave... upon seeing BRAVE how might a little girl think to show her brother or someone else that she is indeed-- brave?

                          She can't really steal a horse and shoot arrows at targets from the hip.

                          She can't find a bear to go face to face with at the neighborhood playground.

                          And yes, most of us do not have gigantic falls for little girls to scale, but as imaginative as all kids are she can certainally PRETEND the OUTSIDE of a tunnel slide or a tree, or a rockwall not meant for climbing is the falls and take it on either by herself, or in front of those calling her out (especially if she is trying to prove something). YES, she will probably be fine... but again, perhaps more of my disappointment in this scene is that it is saying mere phsyical feats are what establish somebody as Brave. In comparison, I think her determination in just "shooting for her own hand" despite her mothers disapproval was a lot more effective in this regard.

                          In the montage that led up to the climb I thought everything else was great... it established her as a rebellious girl, being herself whenever she got the chance. As was clearly, evident from the arrow- filled targets, and her ability to ride and shoot accurately; to me, it was more than obvious that Merida on those days was who SHE believed she was meant to be-- an adventurous, brave, independent young woman/princess.
                          Everything in that quote: no.

                          That scene where she climbs the rock by the waterfall does tell us about her character (and not necessarily her being brave), and it also sets up the disconnect between mother and daughter.

                          Don't NOT write something because there exists the possibility that someone (kids or not) will emulate that action.

                          HH

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                          • #28
                            Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                            If I worried about my daughter climbing a cliff I'd also have to worry about her giving me a poisonous cupcake next time I don't let her have her way.

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                            • #29
                              Re: A "Brave" Responsibility

                              Finally saw this movie. And, yes, the dancing on top of the cliff did seem just a wee bit stupid for the heroine to do. If I had written the scene, I wouldn't have her do that, because, I would want her to be just a little smarter, brave AND smart.

                              If something I'm writing pops out at me when I'm writing, in a "this doesn't seem to be working way", it leaves the script. Sometimes I do edit my writing if I feel that it might effect the audience in ways I rather it didn't. But, not always. Because I'm a writer before I'm a social worker.

                              Being a parent of a twenty-something daughter, yes, some of those mother/daughter scenes were scary real!

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