Question about "establishing shots"

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  • Question about "establishing shots"

    With all this home time on my hands, I've been watching a lot of Netflix crime dramas (Babylon Berlin, Narcos, Ozark, etc.), and I have noticed things. One of these things is the "establishing shot" for a scene. For example, the main scene is a family talking over breakfast. But preceding it is a quick shot of the outside of their house.

    Do we screenwriters need to write all such establishing shots?

    And if so, how do we write it? For example,

    EXT. MARTY'S HOUSE -- DAY (this would seem adequate if nothing is happening outside the house)

    Sunshine and birdsong on this bright spring morning. (This seems a bit superfluous and meaningless.)

    Thanks in advance.

    Will
    "Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December; And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor--"

  • #2
    Re: Question about "establishing shots"

    Write it. Every movie I've ever worked on noted an establishing shot as needed, which they are at various times. It helps for transitions to new scenes so the audience knows where they are, especially if it's the first time a scene of any type is being done there. Obviously, there are various exceptions depending on reveals, etc. But generally an establishing shot can work nicely and help the audience.

    As far as the meaninglessness of it all, yes, your example is kind of weak. That's why you write a better one than that. Maybe two sentences. Or three short sentences, even. But establish more than that.

    What style is the house? Victorian? Modern? Spanish style? A log cabin? Is it one-story? Two-story? Is there garage? Is the lawn well-kept or is it overgrown with weeds? Has the house seen better days? Is the paint peeling? Or does it look like a fresh coat? Here is one of a million examples: "It's the kind of two-story home that screams rich suburbia. Tall, wide, on a roomy plot of land."

    Now that said, and not to overly contradict what I just noted, if someone is a writer/director they may just note something simple: "The three-story Victorian Manor is bathed in sunlight." If it was part of the story somehow they might add, "A large front porch wraps around one side of the house." On the other hand, some writers will simply use "Establishing shot." under the slugline and let the director, DP, location manager and production designer figure it out.

    Ultimately, probably go with what makes for a better read and works well with the style of your writing and the story. Mostly though, if you think there should be a shot of the house, a building or the city -- as in, you see one in your minds' eye -- include it. Try to be descriptive; but I'd say keep it brief in most cases.

    Maybe check out some scripts in the vein of what you are writing and see what they did. Might spark some ideas.
    Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 04-21-2020, 03:06 PM.
    Will
    Done Deal Pro
    www.donedealpro.com

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    • #3
      Re: Question about "establishing shots"

      Hey Will

      Thank you. (Yeah, it was weak on purpose--to make the point.)

      Just to paraphrase, write an establishing shot whenever I see one in my mind's eye as I compose. If it feels right, write it. There's no rule for when one is needed?

      After reading your response, I can see now that an establishing shot could be used for "tone" and even "theme (a stretch but seems possible)."

      One reason I presented this question is I have learned to keep "shots" other than the "master shot" to a minimum. That's not saying eliminate them from your script; rather, don't overdo it as it makes for a bad read. (The Hollywood Standard and former teachers.) So I was thinking maybe the director dealt with "establishing shots." I see now that is not the case.

      Speaking of the Hollywood Standard, I have been wondering if it is still the industry "standard." Can I still rely on it for formatting without losing credibility?

      Thanks again.


      Will
      Last edited by Joseph "Maiingan" Braun; 04-21-2020, 05:32 PM. Reason: typos
      "Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December; And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor--"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question about "establishing shots"

        Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
        Hey Will

        Thank you. (Yeah, it was weak on purpose--to make the point.)

        Just to paraphrase, write an establishing shot whenever I see one in my mind's eye as I compose. If it feels right, write it. There's no rule for when one is needed?
        I know. Wasn't trying to criticize, of course. And sure, use it when you think you need it. You are a filmmaker on the page. But keep in mind once the script gets turned over to a director and a DP, things can change. Later too, when the director and editor are working together on a cut it will change again. Maybe people feel lost or confused without an establishing shot. OR maybe an establishing shot filmed by the 2nd unit is slowing down the movie and needs to be taken out. But yes, if it helps tell the story and the exterior is important to the story ultimately, I'd say throw one in. Obviously again, there are times when you never need one. Think "Saw," for example, or "Buried."

        Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
        After reading your response, I can see now that an establishing shot could be used for "tone" and even "theme (a stretch but seems possible)."
        Yes, sure. But even more than that possibly what does it say about the character, particularly in regards to someone's house? Is Marty lazy and never takes care of his place? Or is Marty someone that mows the lawn twice a week, trims the bushes once a week, water his lawn, paints his house if even the slightest bit of dirt gets on it, etc.?

        Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
        One reason I presented this question is I have learned to keep "shots" other than the "master shot" to a minimum. That's not saying eliminate them from your script; rather, don't overdo it as it makes for a bad read. (The Hollywood Standard and former teachers.) So I was thinking maybe the director dealt with "establishing shots." I see now that is not the case.
        As a writer, don't worry so much about shots, so to speak. A director is going to layout the shots via storyboards possibly or on the day, early in the morning, during a walk through with the DP by his or her side, the cast and the keys on set. Then the cast goes off for breakfast, make-up and wardrobe, while the DP, Gaffer, Key Grip and their crews light the first shot -- usually the master first.

        Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
        Speaking of the Hollywood Standard, I have been wondering if it is still the industry "standard." Can I still rely on it for formatting without losing credibility?
        When you say it? Do you mean the book entitled that? If it is the book, I have no idea. Never read it. I wouldn't suggest slaving yourself too much to any book. Use it a guideline. I'm sure it's fine. John August praised it years ago and it's not like the industry has changed much of anything since then or for almost "ever," so to speak. Some here and there but I wouldn't say dramatically so. (Maybe someone else will chime in. I keep my formatting pretty simple and straightforward.)

        More than books to some degree check out different scripts out there. See what working writers do. If you follow most of the basic "standards" for formatting a script, you'll surely be good to go. Writers have different styles. Some like to bold sluglines. Others like to underline them. Some put tons of jokes in the descriptions no one will ever hear/see. Others like to give character info that literally can't be filmed. But it's all up to that writers' style and what they like.

        The only "true thing" few to really no one will argue about is just tell a really great story with characters we want to watch and dialogue we want to hear. If you can do that, the rest of your choices should be fine.
        Will
        Done Deal Pro
        www.donedealpro.com

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        • #5
          Re: Question about "establishing shots"

          Excellent detailed answer by Will (Done Deal Pro).

          I do not work in the film industry, but I have been a writer for a long time. I have never been an advocate of the view that the writer should let someone else finish the work, whether that is a director or a book editor at a publishing house. The Establishing Shots need to be there for scene-to-scene smoothness and clarity in a great many cases. So why not put them there yourself?

          Of course, the nature of the screenwriting business is such that someone will change things anyway, but at least you can feel that you have turned in a script that was a finished product.


          "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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          • #6
            Re: Question about "establishing shots"

            Pretend you are a Director and you do not know the story or the writer. You have to pick up the script and shoot it as is. What is everything the Director needs to put the vision of the writer in the film (visuals) and then to the screen (effects and audio)? Write your screenplay as though you must direct it yourself. As you write, also pretend you are the audience who sees the film. They will not read the script first; they can only see and hear what’s in the film.

            The Hollywood Standard and The Screenwriter’s Bible both are good for answering many formatting questions. As suggested above, combine that reading with reading scripts of working screenwriters and produced films in the genres you write.
            Last edited by Clint Hill; 04-23-2020, 10:20 AM.
            “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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            • #7
              Re: Question about "establishing shots"

              I use them. For me, I write films, and the writing has to match what'll be on film.

              Yet, being on the page does make the script a bit heftier.

              Maybe that's your goal. If your script is 89 pages, you might just want it to now tip over to 91. But if it's your burden, and the script is a genre action, you may really want to see that sub-hundred count. If it's 102 pages with several such scenes (even a one-line establishing description shot takes up an inch), you could bring it down to 99 without. But remember what you're losing.

              (BTW, these page counts are just examples; 90 or 100 are not "magic" numbers)

              So let's say these things are a burden. The remedy, if we feel these things have value but we also want to lower the page count, is to go back in and chip away at your other scenes to make up the difference.

              Shorter and tighter, and in later and out sooner. Both are always good things.

              (I rarely contribute to these "Basics", and the above probably points out why)

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              • #8
                Re: Question about "establishing shots"

                Definitely an excellent, detailed response by Will. So good, in fact, I will save to one of my writing folders. Thank you, Will.

                And thanks to all of you. I learned a lot.

                But I want to be clear about what I read here. Correct me if I am wrong.

                1. Formatting rules are really important (Hollywood Standard, etc.--I've read around 25-35 scripts BTW.) In other words, making basic formatting mistakes will make a writer look like an amateur.

                2. As long as the basic formatting rules are applied, formatting can be a matter of style. Is that true for someone like me, who is not optioned or represented yet?

                I just want to add: I don't like formatting. I find it a pain in the as*. I like creating stories--that's the fun part for me. (I never use words like PAN, POV, CLOSEUP, etc.)

                Finally, this establishing shot question arose because I am in advanced rewrites (like > 5) of a pilot and a feature and I have never written an establishing shot. Then I kept seeing them in programs I was watching and it kind of made me wonder if I know the hell I am doing.

                Without further ado....Thank you all again.

                Will2
                Last edited by Joseph "Maiingan" Braun; 04-22-2020, 02:37 PM. Reason: typos
                "Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December; And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor--"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question about "establishing shots"

                  Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
                  1. Formatting rules are really important (Hollywood Standard, etc.--I've read around 25-35 scripts BTW.) In other words, making basic formatting mistakes will make a writer look like an amateur.
                  It can. Again, don't overly worry about it too, too much. But I would suggest for any and all don't do the following type of stuff for example:

                  Use INSIDE or OUTSIDE instead of INT. or EXT.

                  Use BRIGHT or DARK instead of DAY or NIGHT

                  And so on. That would, of course, make it look like you haven't taken the time to learn the craft. Read some more scripts as need be. But if you are doing basically what many of the professional, working writers are doing, then formatting is one thing you won't have to worry about.

                  Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
                  2. As long as the basic formatting rules are applied, formatting can be a matter of style. Is that true for someone like me, who is not optioned or represented yet?
                  Only to some degree. I wouldn't again "go off the reservation" with it, though. Many writers do the following:

                  INT. HOUSE - BEDROOM - NIGHT

                  Some do:

                  INT. BEDROOM.HOUSE.NIGHT

                  What you really don't want to do is:

                  INTERIOR**HOUSE#IN A BEDROOM+NIGHT!

                  That would come off as strange. First example good. Second, example, more than fine and used by some. The third is like you are making up your own language to talk with your twin.

                  Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
                  I just want to add: I don't like formatting. I find it a pain in the as*. I like creating stories--that's the fun part for me. (I never use words like PAN, POV, CLOSEUP, etc.)
                  Formatting is your friend. It's what, in many ways, is unique about a script. Plays have a slightly different formatting, of course, as do some other mediums. But don't let it hinder you. It's easy to do. Hopefully you are using a program like Final Draft, Screenwriter 6, FadeIn Pro (a new favorite for many), and so on. Programs specifically designed for writing scripts can make a world of difference. Even then, Word can work well. I wrote my first script on a typewriter. That's a pain.

                  And I don't use POV, pan or CLOSEUP, either. Personally I don't care for them. Maybe because I've worked with a few directors, but mainly because I like to avoid anything in my scripts or the scripts I read that remind me I'm reading a script. But again, some folks use them.

                  Originally posted by WillLevin View Post
                  Finally, this establishing shot question arose because I am in advanced rewrites (like > 5) of a pilot and a feature and I have never written an establishing shot. Then I kept seeing them in programs I was watching and it kind of made me wonder if I know the hell I am doing.
                  Maybe you wrote one and didn't realize it. But as noted, use them when needed to make sure the story is clear to an audience and/or to emphasize something no matter how subtle it might seem. They are used ALL the time in films and TV shows. Most have them are sprinkled in to some degree or another throughout a film or TV series. Some don't, of course. But usually you see them used and appropriately so, in many cases. I wouldn't suggest forcing them on your script; but take a quick look through your script and focus on just establishing shots. As you read your script, imagine where if anywhere they might be helpful. Don't spend too much time on this. (Also, think about being clever with them. Can you include a funny bit? Can you have something briefly happen that mirrors or enhances the theme or the story?) Sometimes you need them. Sometimes you don't.

                  As noted, previously, your story & characters are the most important thing. That's what most will invariably pass on or praise. You might get a few mental dings on your script from a reader for doing "out of the ordinary" formatting. To be honest, I've done that with scripts. Can't help it. But story wins out.
                  Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 04-24-2020, 06:33 AM.
                  Will
                  Done Deal Pro
                  www.donedealpro.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question about "establishing shots"

                    Thank you again, Will.
                    "Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December; And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor--"

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