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  • Re: I only see Bill in Vegas - even though we're neighbors

    VMF, I realize this was just off the top of your head, so I don't mean to pick on you, but an idea like: XXX does sound different. But do audiences really want to see the hero make out with a transsexual? Will they root for the lovers to get together? Is there any real heart and soul in an idea like that?
    I thought it was pretty obvious this was a joke. I was simply trying to illustrate a potential hook, not a good hook, and although I may have failed, I tried to use a slightly humorous log.

    I was trying to illustrate a concept, not a reality of a sure-fire movie idea. You can have a Catholic boy entering the priesthood, finding the bartender girl of his dreams... and that's not a movie.

    Then again, if that girl might be the Devil's daughter, then you've got a potential hook. :b

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    • Re: I only see Bill in Vegas - even though we're neighbors

      I still disagree. In every romantic comedy, the story is how the romance unfolds. It doesn't have to have big over-the-top elements to make it a story. It does has to have conflict and heart, characters people care about and good writing.

      The premise of when "When Harry Met Sally" is two good friends fear sex will ruin their relationship. Would you say that's a boring, low concept premise? That one of them should really be an alien? What about "Sleepless in Seattle"? A recently-widowed man's son calls a radio talk show in an attempt to find his father a partner. What makes that a good premise? Where's the great hook?

      Many, many people have had friendships where there is some underlying sexual tension. No one has fallen in love with the devil's daughter. Ultimately, it still comes down to a good story and that's more dependant on the the telling than the setup.

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      • Re: I only see Bill in Vegas - even though we're neighbors

        The premise of when "When Harry Met Sally" is two good friends fear sex will ruin their relationship. Would you say that's a boring, low concept premise? That one of them should really be an alien? What about "Sleepless in Seattle"? A recently-widowed man's son calls a radio talk show in an attempt to find his father a partner. What makes that a good premise? Where's the great hook?
        Even high concept can sound low concept if you state it without the hook. Just like "Three men go fishing for a shark".

        For example, an important part of the hook in Sleepless is the incredible distance between the two leads. You leave that out, and no one cares.

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        • Re: I only see Bill in Vegas - even though we're neighbors

          I think I'm flogging a dead horse here, but I'll give it one more shot. The hook in Sleepless in Seattle was that it was written by Nora Ephron who has 6 produced movies before it including "When Harry met Sally."

          Why is distance a hook? They get on a plane. One of them moves. People do it all the time.

          The more I think about it, I realize what bothers me about this debate is not the emphasis on a commercial idea. It's people's concept of what makes something a commercial idea. Inflating stakes till they're sky high or putting together over the top elements doesn't make something commercial. Too often, I see advice on here that basically comes down to "pump it up." A commercial idea is just something that can make one producer with a checkbook imagine a movie in his mind and picture the audience that would see it.

          Even then, all the idea gets you is a sit down so you can pitch, or a read of a completed script. Most of the time, the execution has to sell the idea. Sometimes the idea alone sells but it's rare. For example, Galaxy Quest was originally about a Magnum P.I. type guy who was thrown into solving a real crime. The producer didn't like the script but thought the idea would be better if it was a Star Trek type actor instead.

          All the pros in this thread keep saying write something you feel passionate about. Find an idea that's compelling, dramatic, funny or scary. It doesn't have to be over-the-top, it just has to be pique someone's interest. Reminds me of an improv class I took years ago. The teacher told everyone to get up on stage and try to grab his attention. People yelled, sang, jumped up and down, pushed in front of each other, etc. I sat on the edge of the stage and watched them in silence. Guess who the teacher watched?

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          • Re: I only see Bill in Vegas - even though we're neighbors

            Reminds me of an improv class I took years ago. The teacher told everyone to get up on stage and try to grab his attention. People yelled, sang, jumped up and down, pushed in front of each other, etc. I sat on the edge of the stage and watched them in silence. Guess who the teacher watched?
            Good point. After reading this thread I looked back at loglines in the Sales Bulletin. Though they may not represent verbatim what the original query logline stated, only a few struck me as being both unique and commercial...and they didn't have to be gaudy or over the top--just different.
            Several blockbusters on the top 50 list have age old concepts just transposed in a new form and they have familiar themes told in a different way. Being gimmicky or over the top doesn't seem to guarantee shiznit.

            -ros

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            • Re: I only see Bill in Vegas - even though we're neighbors

              I think the hook in Sleepless was the "falling in love on the radio talk show" idea. People being brought together via the media was an idea that fit well in the early 1990s, just as "Can friends be lovers" theme of When Harry Met Sally was timely for a decade that saw a mass infiltration of women in the workplace, and just like "You've Got Mail" was very late 1990s (even though it was a terrible film), with both the internet and the "big box" versus small independents.

              For a romcom to work, it has to have a very immediate feel -- if it's a story that could have taken place ten years ago, it's not going to do well. The only exception I can think of to this rule is "Shakespeare in Love."

              A good romcom is hard to find, but a hard romcom isn't good to find.

              Jami

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              • returned from vacation and found this gem - i love DD

                anyway, how about personality and interaction? i believe social skills to be one of the most important tools in any business - and life.

                it´s not just about interaction. it's HOW you interact - be it in bed or through e-mail - that will have an effect and influence the direction of events, "luck and coincidence" or whatever one likes to call it

                lets say you have adequate talent, where do the social capabilities matter?

                in everything. from querry to networking to agent to pitch to deal to rewrite battle to marketing to ad infinitum

                age, physical attributes, social status, gender, race - all matter - but if u lack a couple, social skills will go a long way to balancing the scale

                social skills = empathy, ego, patience, analysis, guts, deceit, honesty, slyness, etc - anything that applies to communication

                writing is communication. the quality of your script will probably be influenced by your level of social capabilities

                getting it and yourself out there certainly will

                the good part is - for the vast majority, social skills can be trained

                --------------

                just the morning rant

                /j

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                • Re: I only see Bill in Vegas - even though we're neighbors

                  The hook in Sleepless in Seattle was that it was written by Nora Ephron who has 6 produced movies before it including "When Harry met Sally."
                  Of course, but my only point is that you can make even the most high concept of ideas boring, through the inventive use of English. I think you've proven that concept quite handily.

                  If you really want to think that Joe Nobody can walk in with a hookless, low concept script and get it made, then that's your right. Personally, I don't believe it for a second.

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