Montage or quick shots?

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  • #76
    Re: Montage or quick shots?

    Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
    How better could I have asked that?
    as i mentioned brad, i wasn't intending that towards you alone but giving you the benefit of perception, i can see how it might read that way. since you asked a direct question about how you might have asked that differently... my suggestion would have been a pm to jeff, giving him also, the benefit of perception.
    life happens
    despite a few cracked pots-
    and random sunlight

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    • #77
      Re: Montage or quick shots?

      Originally posted by asjah8 View Post
      as i mentioned brad, i wasn't intending that towards you alone but giving you the benefit of perception, i can see how it might read that way. since you asked a direct question about how you might have asked that differently... my suggestion would have been a pm to jeff, giving him also, the benefit of perception.
      Here's another perception. Perhaps you can PM Jeff the following for me.

      Jeff, you say the montage contains short little scenes without the normal beginning, middle & end. IMO, it is my perception that the STREET and HALLWAY scenes do have a normal beginning, middle & end. Without telling me I'm an idiot, could you please share your thoughts with just me about why you think otherwise?

      asjah8, it's your call. If you feel that I shouldn't ask a pro about something that's confusing to only me then I'll just let it go and struggle on.

      (this place has gotten so weird lately)
      "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
      - Clive Barker, Galilee

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Montage or quick shots?

        Originally posted by asjah8 View Post
        . i mean, film is a communication medium. unless i'm totally off base here, i believe strong communication skills are a necessary skill to survive in screenwriting. and not just writing words on a page, but writing to communicate a thought, an idea, a story... or a question for a pro.

        okay, off my soapbox and back to being a noob.
        I agree totally. And in adding my related two cents ... whether we're reading a pro's work or a non-pro's work, as writers I feel we should, at the very least, respect the time and thought that goes into someone's work and not come out guns blazing to shoot it down. Especially when we're only reading an excerpt. Take a moment to consider the writer made this choice or that choice for a reason.

        You know, do unto others... as you would have them do unto you when they read your work.

        Although, pros likely have bigger targets on their backs because some unsold writers, suffering from insecurity or the fear they will likely fail, are looking to prop themselves up by finding the fatal flaw in a pro's work.

        I'd say more than a dozen times during my tenure at DD, I've received PMs or emails form DDer's declaring this pro or that pro's work is "terrible, awful stuff - go read it, you won't believe it."

        And when I do read the work I find professional, tight, cinematic quality writing. It may not be in a genre I prefer, or the kind of story that appeals to me as a movie-goer -- but as a writer I can be objective enough to recognize craft when I see it. And it's clear to me why the pro is making a living writing.

        What troubles me is -- what type of mental eyeglasses is the non-pro using when reading pro work to declare it's "just terrible." And are they wearing these distorting glasses when the read their own work? Food for thought.
        Last edited by sc111; 10-01-2010, 08:32 AM.
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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        • #79
          Re: Montage or quick shots?

          well said, sc.


          brad, assistance is on the way in another thread. perhaps someone will be kind enough to clear up any confusion you may have regarding further uses of montages.
          life happens
          despite a few cracked pots-
          and random sunlight

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Montage or quick shots?

            Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post

            How better could I have asked that?
            For starters, take a look at how asjah asks questions in her Montage Assistance thread in this sub-forum.

            She is seeking answers. She admits she needs help. She is non confrontational.

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            • #81
              Re: Montage or quick shots?

              Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
              For starters, take a look at how asjah asks questions in her Montage Assistance thread in this sub-forum.

              She is seeking answers. She admits she needs help. She is non confrontational.
              "She is seeking answers." check - note the question marks.
              "She admits she needs help." check - I'm confused.
              "She is non confrontational." I thought I was one. Are you suggesting I should generalize my questions and not be specific?
              "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
              - Clive Barker, Galilee

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Montage or quick shots?

                i think it's pretty clear at this point that you don't really want assistance; but rather to target a respected person while hiding behind a veil of anonymity. i withdraw my thread and attention from this b.s.
                life happens
                despite a few cracked pots-
                and random sunlight

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Montage or quick shots?

                  Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                  "She is seeking answers." check - note the question marks.
                  "She admits she needs help." check - I'm confused.
                  "She is non confrontational." I thought I was one. Are you suggesting I should generalize my questions and not be specific?
                  Brad, what does "I thought I was one" mean here.

                  I'm not suggesting that you should generalize your questions and not be specific. How did you get that from "She is non confrotational?"

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Montage or quick shots?

                    Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                    "She is non confrotational?"
                    well i sorta blew that concept, didn't i? lol...i can't help but find the humor in situations. thank you for stepping up jp.

                    oops, i said i wouldn't pay attention anymore.

                    carry on...
                    life happens
                    despite a few cracked pots-
                    and random sunlight

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Montage or quick shots?

                      We all reach a boiling point, asjah.

                      Mine is very high now, like the character in my latest screenplay attempt.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Montage or quick shots?

                        Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                        Brad, what does "I thought I was one" mean here.

                        I'm not suggesting that you should generalize your questions and not be specific. How did you get that from "She is non confrotational?"
                        Sorry, my bad, it's a bad edit. Omit the word "one".

                        I was comparing her post to my post.
                        I asked questions, I admitted I was confused. The difference I see between the two posts is that she is asking general questions while I was referring to a specific example.

                        I am not the Supreme Guru of the Sacred Screenwriting Rules. A question from me is not a massive assault from the dark side.

                        Though if you think about it (really think about it) if I was the SGSSR wouldn't I be taking a big risk by asking any questions at all? Wouldn't the fastest and easiest way to shut me up and put me in my place be just to answer my question with any level of logic?

                        A couple of things I noticed:
                        - I had to finally say something really stupid before I got a reply that made sense. Is the drive to prove somebody else wrong stronger than the willingness to help?

                        - There seems to be a trend to treat pros like infallible supreme beings. It's like people are afraid to question anything they do. I did notice that nobody contradicted Jeff's "boring" comments. If I may be so bold, "Jeff, you are many things, but boring is not one of them."
                        "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                        - Clive Barker, Galilee

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Montage or quick shots?

                          Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                          Is the drive to prove somebody else wrong stronger than the willingness to help?
                          it's a good question worth thinking about. i think that drive can be stronger in people at times but not always for the reasons we expect. i believe people inherently want to do the right things, but different needs and goals propel them to action. that's what is great about screenwriting imho, or perhaps just storytelling in general, because it allows us an opportunity to view things from all sides and ask... what if?
                          life happens
                          despite a few cracked pots-
                          and random sunlight

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Montage or quick shots?

                            Re: Brad's sig quote:

                            I'd choose neither.

                            I should probably eat more fruit.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Montage or quick shots?

                              Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                              - There seems to be a trend to treat pros like infallible supreme beings. It's like people are afraid to question anything they do. I did notice that nobody contradicted Jeff's "boring" comments. If I may be so bold, "Jeff, you are many things, but boring is not one of them."
                              I think this a logical mess.

                              Treating someone with respect because you value their opinion does not mean you are kissing their ass.

                              Why would we want to listen to a nobody when we can listen to a pro? That's an incredible resource to tap into.

                              I for one think it's bad form to question a working pro about screenwriting when I don't know what fvck I'm talking about.

                              Then to watch others essentially piss and run off pros because they think they know better is extremely frustrating.

                              Just gotta say thanks to you guys for ruining it for everyone else.

                              The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Montage or quick shots?

                                @2Brad -- again, you tend to miss the forest for the trees. Read this paragraph again:



                                Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                                ...There's a group of people on this board that have a differing viewpoint about how to approach the most basic elements of screenwriting. The frustrating part is that almost no conversation can get past that level. It's as if any conversation that takes place has to stop to define what the word "is" means. And no one can agree so we can move on, even if you pull out the dictionary and read the definition. So we argue about what "is" is for 20 pages, and never get into anything more interesting...

                                .
                                I agree with the above.

                                My problem with you, TwoBrad, it's not how you ask your "got-cha" questions or even when you "play" dense and drag discussions into unnecessary tangents, it's that you are likely chasing away writers who have something of value to share. And I'm not just talking pro writers.

                                There are many topics here where I'm hoping to find a kernal I can use because I'm exploring genres that are new to me.

                                Beyond the pros, we have many on-the-verge-of-pro DDers who write in these genres and may offer a kernal or two.

                                However, I notice they are woefully absent from discussions in which you jump in, with your keen grasp of the obvious, and disserations presented in your professorial tone. Examples:

                                You're passing up what you want to do - discuss character, symbolism, effective sub-plots, and (shudder) theme.

                                I narrowed down the playing field to just Jeff's montage.

                                Any fruitful discussion will go far in answering my questions.

                                For starts: How is character developed in Jeff's montage?


                                (OR ..........)

                                Why is trying to pick up a dog a part of the montage?
                                Answer: It serves the story and makes for a better read.

                                Why is repeating how Henry feels about cat owners a part of the montage?
                                Answer: It serves the story and makes for a better read.

                                It serves the story how?
                                It makes for a better read how?


                                ----------------------

                                The discussion went downhill soon after you hijacked it, Professor TwoBrad. Even the original poster disappeared.

                                Your TONE speaks volumes. Everyone sees it, hears it. And no way in hell are you trying to learn something.

                                You leave every "discussion" you partake in with the same exact dogmatic opinion you had when you entered it. Not a hint of evolution.

                                And I still think you're a dilittante when it comes to screenwriting.
                                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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