Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

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  • Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

    Thinking about GET CARTER (1971). Protag climbs ladder of bad guys, motive+goal wrapped together, main twist is he's the monster, death is the only way out.

    Similar ideas in POINT BLANK, DEATHWISH, DEATH SENTENCE, PAYBACK, EDGE OF DARKNESS, FASTER, DEAD MAN'S SHOES, UNFORGIVEN and fifty others I've seen.

    So. Checklist for revenge stories:

    1. Ladder
    2. Motive=Goal
    3. He's the monster
    4. Everybody dies

    QUESTION: Is that all there is to revenge stories? Have I missed anything?
    Last edited by SNAFU; 01-04-2011, 01:06 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

    I think there's two kinds of revenge stories.

    1) Our hero is pushed too far by some seriously bad people and needs to kill them all. We support his efforts and even though we cringe at his methods, we're glad he did it. Payback, Unforgiven.

    2) Our hero is pushed too far by some obviously bad people and needs to kill not just them but anyone in his way. At first we support his methods, but as he kills more and more people we star to see his humanity slip away and we end up rooting for him to abandon his quest. Sweeny Todd, Count of Monty Cristo.
    Chicks Who Script podcast

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    • #3
      Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

      Originally posted by emily blake View Post
      Sweeny Todd
      That was a revenge flick?

      I'm a little rusty on the history now, babe (one of our first serial killers, by the way (and long before the term existed), but wasn't he a psychopath who slit punters' throats for kicks and then got his girlfriend to make meat pies out of their body parts?

      Wow, sometimes truth really is more ghastly than fiction...
      Cufk, Tish, Sips.

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      • #4
        Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

        revenge is easy. Inducing catharsis in the viewer and pulling of a fulfilling ending is the tough part.

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        • #5
          Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

          Originally posted by SNAFU View Post
          QUESTION: Is that all there is to revenge stories? Have I missed anything?
          I'd say the most important element is something devastating and personal happening to your hero that ignites the need to seek revenge in the first place.

          The key is somehow making your story different from every other revenge story. You can't just plug in a checklist and be done. You need to plug in something that makes your story something more than just A hunting B for X reason.

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          • #6
            Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

            Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
            That was a revenge flick?

            I'm a little rusty on the history now, babe (one of our first serial killers, by the way (and long before the term existed), but wasn't he a psychopath who slit punters' throats for kicks and then got his girlfriend to make meat pies out of their body parts?

            Wow, sometimes truth really is more ghastly than fiction...
            The only reason he does it is because he's pissed off at what they did to him. Oh yeah, that's a revenge flick.
            Chicks Who Script podcast

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            • #7
              Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

              Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
              That was a revenge flick?

              I'm a little rusty on the history now, babe (one of our first serial killers, by the way (and long before the term existed), but wasn't he a psychopath who slit punters' throats for kicks and then got his girlfriend to make meat pies out of their body parts?

              Wow, sometimes truth really is more ghastly than fiction...
              Not sure about the actual historical character. But in the film...its definitely along the lines of revenge..."I will have vengeance! I will have salvation!"

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              • #8
                Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                What is most effective is the emotional build up of the protagonist, or the inner emotion you could say. How strong are his/her feelings toward the antagonist? It seems that this strength is directly dependent on the idea of how much pain/suffering (emotional and or physical) the protag endured whilst in the hands of the antag.

                Dead Man's Shoes as you listed is a really good revenge flick.
                HOSTEL has a great revenge/redemption moment.
                THE GODFATHER diner scene.
                V FOR VENDETTA
                INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS I guess
                CARRIE
                SLEEPERS

                and my favorite... THE FORGOTTEN PISTOLERO

                I've not seen it but I hear OLDBOY works well in this genre.
                Originally posted by Great White Mark
                Film is art? Just a tip, it's called show business, not show art.

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                • #9
                  Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                  Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                  I'd say the most important element is something devastating and personal happening to your hero that ignites the need to seek revenge in the first place.
                  Exactly... because you want the audience to subconsciously or consciously give the seeker of revenge a moral license to do what he/she does, so that they (the audience, or should I say reader) can enjoy the revenge vicariously. If the original offense is not grave and personal enough, the revenge-seeker will look instead like an unhinged maniac and the audience will not relate.

                  To answer your question directly SNAFU, what makes revenge stories work is the vicarious enjoyment of taking revenge, and the natural human trait of enjoying watching bad people get what's coming to them.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                    What keeps a revenge story from being trite?
                    "I ask every producer I meet if they need TV specs they say yeah. They all want a 40 inch display that's 1080p and 120Hz. So, I quit my job at the West Hollywood Best Buy."
                    - Screenwriting Friend

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                    • #11
                      Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                      Originally posted by SNAFU View Post
                      Similar ideas in POINT BLANK, DEATHWISH, DEATH SENTENCE, PAYBACK, EDGE OF DARKNESS, FASTER, DEAD MAN'S SHOES, UNFORGIVEN and fifty others I've seen.
                      Woah - is that DEATH SENTENCE as in the film starring Kevin Bacon and made by one of the SAW guys?

                      Wholly f'ing crap! That film is THE BIGGEST rip off of Taxi Driver and a tonne more films. I got the feeling it was a script penned in University as an assignment, where he just mashed together bits from all his favorite revenge/lone gunman style flicks and wrote "THE END"...

                      One of the worst films I've ever seen. I'm sorry to distract your thread, but it had to be said.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                        TAKEN isn't technically a revenge flick (it's more of a rescue flick), but it's got the same kind of emotion that you need in a strong revenge story. First of all, something devastating happened to the protagonist: his daughter was taken to be used as a sex slave. Wow. And the antagonists are really despicable people from all walks of life: low life Eastern European thugs, a highbrow snob living in Paris, a crooked cop -- and an Arab sheik. So what you've really got going is a strong rooting interest for the protagonist to get even with all those guys (and, of course, save his daughter). Again, it's not technically a revenge flick, but it's got all the elements and emotion that you need.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                          Emily mentioned THE ultimate revenge story. In fact Count of Monte Cristo is so on point, that I'd say it basically cannot be outdone.

                          If revenge stories are your forte, Count of Monte Cristo is the Bible.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                            Originally posted by nou View Post
                            HOSTEL has a great revenge/redemption moment.

                            ****... I missed that. Must have been when I turned around to puke.

                            I really don't get why people want to see so much gore and blood. They could spend their day in a slaughterhouse or a mortuary facilitating car accidents.

                            "Artificial Intelligence will never match the efficiency of Natural Stupidity"

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                            • #15
                              Re: Revenge Stories--what makes 'em work?

                              And Revenge of the Nerds is the hymnal.
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