The Dark Knight Rises

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  • Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Originally posted by Max Otto Schrenck View Post
    You should have stuck with the two dots instead of wracking your brain to figure out what else to say. But I suppose you had to apply a tourniquet to collect enough bad blood to fill in the blank space.

    Please. Really. Not humorously. Seriously. Logically. Non-fallaciously.

    No one is attacking you. All is well. No one knows who "tukka" is any more than they know who "M.O. Schrenck" is. This is a tempest in a t-pot. A tennis match behind the thick, barnacled wall of your skull. All will come out with the wash. Quietness will descend from heaven. Little angels will sing, to you if not to all of us.

    OOOmmmmmm....

    Your posts are kind of an Interesting example of passive-aggressive behavior based on falsehoods. Not just my opinion - It's pretty obvious to anyone reading this thread.

    If you act openly aggressively - Which you did again in the quoted post, that kind of open aggression is fairly rare on this board - it doesn't really help that you claim to not act aggressively.

    You are playing a game that exists only in your own head. And it prevents anyone from trying to establish a real discussion with you.

    I'll just ignore your posts from now on.

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    • Re: The Dark Knight Rises

      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
      Emotion vs. logic is a false debate. You think you can achieve emotion without a certain amount of logic? Think again.

      Of course, a lot of very good films will show some cracks when analyzed in depth. Things that are too convenient, little inconsistencies, contrivances to move the plot along, etc. One can notice those and still enjoy the movie in question.

      The problem is when key scenes or sequences are devoid of any emotion because they are just absolutely silly. Even whole plotlines.

      A good story, an enjoyable story, has to make sense on some level. It doesn't have anything to do with "having the innate talent for this form of art," although I'll admit, tuukka, that it takes some balls to say something like that (clap, clap, clap, clap).
      I hope you realize that nothing you are saying here actually contradicts anything I have said. Yet you seem to be debating with me, with a point I have not made?

      I have not said, at any point, not even in the slightest, that logic would be unnecessary. Or that logic and emotion would be adversaries.

      You aren't really even addressing the point I made.

      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
      I'd be hard pressed to point out any redeeming qualities in The Dark Knight Rises. To me, that film was just awful.
      Didn't you just say:

      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
      And yes, I know I haven't offered a single piece of constructive criticism, but I feel just like if I've bitten a rotten apple; there's no point in going over what I don't like about the texture, the smell or the color, the damn thing is just rotten.
      You're still going over it.

      Anyway, I liked all the three films. There is much to like, and admire, in all of them. Man Of Steel is obviously the most flawed from a storytelling POV, due to the flashback structure, which works against the emotional impact of the film.

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      • Re: The Dark Knight Rises

        "I'll just ignore your posts from now on."

        Thanks. That's one less full-of-himself s**tbag I have to deal with.

        But you could have been nice about it (wiping away a tear). You didn't have to be -- mean --

        (see? i can write passive-aggressive b.s. even better than you do...).

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        • Re: The Dark Knight Rises

          tuukka, to be honest, I'm not even sure that you've made a point at all, other than the rather pompous comment that those of us who consider logic to be very important probably don't have the innate talent blah, blah, blah. Of course, I don't know who's the person behind the user name "tuukka", you might be James Cameron for all I know, but I just don't appreciate the attitude.

          And yes, there's a contradiction, not in the arguments themselves but in the amount of logic each of us deems necessary for a story to be enjoyable. And I don't even want to stress the importance of the word "logic", because there were plenty of other things to complain about in TDKR.

          That's not a very worthy discussion, I think, so let's leave it like this: if you love it, great; if I don't, too bad.

          Although, in the event of future disagreements, I'll appreciate it if you comment the arguments and not on me personally, talent or lack thereof.

          Cheers.

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          • Re: The Dark Knight Rises

            Come on guys, this is a good conversation, lets just keep it civil.

            For my money, the only real duty we have to an audience, is to keep their willingness to suspend their disbelief.

            Audiences can be very forgiving and will ignore a lot of inaccuracies, so long as they are not taken out of the film experience. Once you take that forgiveness for granted, you run the risk of them focusing on the wrong things, as TDKR had me doing.

            By the time Bruce Wayne "magically" appeared back at Gotham, and just strolled straight up to Selena, I had had enough, and stopped trying to enjoy the film, and believe me I tried. Right then, all the other inconsistencies I shuffled in my seat at but ignored earlier, suddenly came back and began to annoy me.

            My overall assessment is that the scale of the film just got out of hand, and it overshadowed the theme and ideology behind Wayne and his Batman persona. Bigger is not always better.

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            • Re: The Dark Knight Rises

              Writing A CERTAIN KIND of screenplay is like building a rollercoaster. The entire structure is drawn up to generate, involuntarily if possible, the strongest emotion possible from the viewer.

              But if you go into it with that emotion holding you by the throat, you're going to end up with a disconnected mess, because you don't have control of your work. It takes a cool head, and a certain flat detachment, to lay things out right. And that's where logic comes in.

              Then again, that's what I'd call the studio movie approach. There are other approaches, some more thought-out, some more off-the-cuff, that manage to get OTHER EFFECTS, which IMO are just as valid (if not more so, to tell by the conclusions we've drawn on this thread).

              True, all effective filmwork deals with emotion. But if you write everything "from the heart" like we're encouraged to do, you're not just asking for trouble. You're setting yourself up for a fall. Maybe you can do it with poh-tree and "prose." Not with screenwriting.

              As for the rest, civil is as civil does. I would have been a lot more antagonistic if my adversary had had less than a hundred posts. But the guy seems to know his stuff, he's got background -- I can't diss that. I can diss his attitude, though, which is what I did.

              Bottom line: I don't think it's a good idea to make sweeping off-the-cuff judgments about other crafts-people -- even when you know them. When you obviously don't know them, that makes it that much worse.
              Last edited by Max Otto Schrenck; 12-31-2013, 09:31 AM.

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