Game of Thrones S7

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  • #16
    Re: Game of Thrones S7

    Originally posted by sixridgeroad View Post
    I agree that episode #3 was the best so far and I think it's because it was written by Weiss & Benioff.
    I watched the season finale last night. I enjoyed it a lot and thought it was impressive how they handled having so many characters in the same scene.

    One thing that stuck out to me was that I was glad they got rid of Littlefinger. They haven't really known what to do with him for the past couple of seasons and he was far more interesting when his motivations were murky. Once it came about that he was interested in chaos for its own sake, he became less intriguing.

    Kind of like how a basic rule of writing is that villains are always doing the right thing in their mind and there should be some underlying motivation for that action. At first, the impression was given that Littlefinger was motivated by his undying love for Catelyn Stark, but that was given less weight when he became fixated on Sansa. It was great that she was the one who passed the sentence to have him executed.

    Along the same lines, if the major villain is going to be the Night King, they ought to explain why he wants to destroy humanity. If he's just going to be a mindless creature driven by blind hatred, that's less interesting than if he has some articulated motivation.

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    • #17
      Re: Game of Thrones S7

      Originally posted by sixridgeroad View Post
      I'd never heard of the books until the series so can't comment, but as far as I'm concerned the show was terrific -- *such* good writing -- all the way to the last episode of season six. Almost as if senior producers are delegating it to others and are ready to move on or something.
      I've read the books, as far as they are available. The first three books are very good, and then after that they felt less cohesive to me. Like GMMR lost track of all the threads he'd been weaving together. The TV series seems to suffer from this as well. Really good at the beginning and less cohesive as the story runs along.

      Now they've shorten the seasons and are running at break neck speed - my guess because they no longer have the books to guide them. I also would not be surprised if after the TV show is finished that the books move in a different direction. GMMR takes his bloody time getting each book out, and they may evolve as he writes them, despite what the told the TV producers.

      I also have this fear that the ending is not going to live up to the early books. I really enjoyed the early books, finished 1200 pages in 3 days. I did not do that with the later books.
      826dk

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      • #18
        Re: Game of Thrones S7

        Watched the season climax. Good. They're wrapping up storylines so they're not spending as much time on character beats which changes the flavor, imho. But mostly good. (Although the bit where Sam and Bran talk re John Snow's lineage was a brutally bad scene.)

        One q that semi bothers me: why the freak aren't they making ten million dragon-glass arrowheads and arrows, etc.? They could have shot the dragon down that way. Sorry but John Snow should be fired as generalissimo bc he gonna mess shizz up.

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        • #19
          Re: Game of Thrones S7

          Originally posted by KitesAreFun View Post

          Along the same lines, if the major villain is going to be the Night King, they ought to explain why he wants to destroy humanity. If he's just going to be a mindless creature driven by blind hatred, that's less interesting than if he has some articulated motivation.
          Right. They need to flesh out his backstory. I assume they will. But undead zombies w/o motivations bore me to ribbons. Talk about a failure of imagination from the writers. It's why I liked the fact that the white walkers are artists w the dead horse heads, etc. Made them much more interesting.

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          • #20
            Re: Game of Thrones S7

            Originally posted by KitesAreFun View Post
            One thing that stuck out to me was that I was glad they got rid of Littlefinger. They haven't really known what to do with him for the past couple of seasons and he was far more interesting when his motivations were murky. Once it came about that he was interested in chaos for its own sake, he became less intriguing.

            Kind of like how a basic rule of writing is that villains are always doing the right thing in their mind and there should be some underlying motivation for that action. At first, the impression was given that Littlefinger was motivated by his undying love for Catelyn Stark, but that was given less weight when he became fixated on Sansa. It was great that she was the one who passed the sentence to have him executed.

            Along the same lines, if the major villain is going to be the Night King, they ought to explain why he wants to destroy humanity. If he's just going to be a mindless creature driven by blind hatred, that's less interesting than if he has some articulated motivation.
            Littlefinger wasn't interested in chaos for the sake of chaos. It was as a means for him to amass more power for himself (hence the "chaos is a ladder" monologue from seasons earlier). That goal eventually becomes to gain power through Sansa, and the entire reason he stuck around Winterfell was to convince Sansa to ditch Jon, become queen of Winterfell, and marry him. And then to eventually take that alliance to King's Landing -- as he told Sansa earlier: "Every time I'm faced with a decision I close my eyes and see the same picture. Whenever I consider an action I ask myself, 'will this help make this picture a reality? Pull it out of my mind and into the world?' And I only act if the answer is 'yes'. A picture of me on the Iron Throne... and you by my side."

            Did he actually love Sansa? We'll never know. But we did know he loved power.

            This is why I absolutely loved Littlefinger. No claim to the throne, just a raw desire for that absolute power, and he was able to play so many sides for so long in that pursuit. He was never going to die in battle like all the other would-be kings/queens, it was always going to be someone discovering his plan and past actions, most notably kicking off the entire series by murdering Jon Arryn, Robert's hand. Unlucky for him, Bran acquired cheat codes and was able to see all that. There was a deleted scene from the finale that would have made Bran's role more explicit, but they cut it to make his execution scene a surprise. Good call, I liked it, and Bran revealed he knew these things in this scene, so we can assume he informed Sansa.

            Also, shout out to that scheming voice. The best scheming voice. I'll miss it. RIP Littlefinger, a true master of the game, and one of my all time favorite characters. He acted the f**k out of that death scene, too.

            As for the Night King, I sorta agree. It's an odd feeling in Thrones to have a villain we can't identify with at all. But there's lots of theory that the white walkers/army of the dead are an intentional metaphor for climate change (and if not intentional, they still are). But if Martin wrote GoT with that in mind, it would make sense that the Night King acts as more of an unstoppable force of nature, versus having more human motivation. It also creates a different dynamic with the rest of our characters, as the Night King clearly can't be reasoned with, surrendered to, betrayed, out maneuvered with politics of any kind.

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            • #21
              Re: Game of Thrones S7

              Originally posted by jboffer View Post
              Littlefinger wasn't interested in chaos for the sake of chaos. It was as a means for him to amass more power for himself (hence the "chaos is a ladder" monologue from seasons earlier). That goal eventually becomes to gain power through Sansa, and the entire reason he stuck around Winterfell was to convince Sansa to ditch Jon, become queen of Winterfell, and marry him. And then to eventually take that alliance to King's Landing -- as he told Sansa earlier: "Every time I'm faced with a decision I close my eyes and see the same picture. Whenever I consider an action I ask myself, 'will this help make this picture a reality? Pull it out of my mind and into the world?' And I only act if the answer is 'yes'. A picture of me on the Iron Throne... and you by my side."

              Did he actually love Sansa? We'll never know. But we did know he loved power.

              This is why I absolutely loved Littlefinger. No claim to the throne, just a raw desire for that absolute power, and he was able to play so many sides for so long in that pursuit. He was never going to die in battle like all the other would-be kings/queens, it was always going to be someone discovering his plan and past actions, most notably kicking off the entire series by murdering Jon Arryn, Robert's hand. Unlucky for him, Bran acquired cheat codes and was able to see all that. There was a deleted scene from the finale that would have made Bran's role more explicit, but they cut it to make his execution scene a surprise. Good call, I liked it, and Bran revealed he knew these things in this scene, so we can assume he informed Sansa.

              Also, shout out to that scheming voice. The best scheming voice. I'll miss it. RIP Littlefinger, a true master of the game, and one of my all time favorite characters. He acted the f**k out of that death scene, too.

              As for the Night King, I sorta agree. It's an odd feeling in Thrones to have a villain we can't identify with at all. But there's lots of theory that the white walkers/army of the dead are an intentional metaphor for climate change (and if not intentional, they still are). But if Martin wrote GoT with that in mind, it would make sense that the Night King acts as more of an unstoppable force of nature, versus having more human motivation. It also creates a different dynamic with the rest of our characters, as the Night King clearly can't be reasoned with, surrendered to, betrayed, out maneuvered with politics of any kind.
              Yes, good point about Littlefinger. Maybe I just found that plot thread less interesting than everything going on around him and I never quite bought that Sansa would let him back into her life after what happened with Ramsay.

              What you wrote about the Night King makes sense. I still think that it's less compelling in terms of drama.

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              • #22
                Re: Game of Thrones S7

                Originally posted by KitesAreFun View Post
                Yes, good point about Littlefinger. Maybe I just found that plot thread less interesting than everything going on around him and I never quite bought that Sansa would let him back into her life after what happened with Ramsay.

                What you wrote about the Night King makes sense. I still think that it's less compelling in terms of drama.
                While there are lots of theories about The Night King and his motives let's take it at face value for a sec. All other threats in this show are about schemes and power plays. It's the reason Littlefinger managed to survive as long as he did. The White Walkers though? They can't be manipulated or tricked. They kill or die. That in itself is what makes it compelling to me. It's the reason the scene between Cersei, Daenerys and Jon carries so much weight. They've all faced the threat of treacherous usurpers etc but this threat? They've never dealt with anything like it and they're out of their depth. Cersei still believes she can play the game of thrones and come out on top. She doesn't know how to deal with a threat like this. She can't grasp the idea of something more important than power. I can understand the boredom that can come with an unstoppable braindead horde but I think in this case it makes complete sense.

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