Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

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  • #46
    Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

    Regarding M. Night...

    If we're assuming that he has "fallen off" since writing THE SIXTH SENSE then aren't we assuming that THE SIXTH SENSE was an accurate representation of his level?

    There's another possibility here. Maybe he has always been a mediocre writer. Maybe he just happened to get lucky and write something well above his station with THE SIXTH SENSE.

    There's a certain amount of variance in screenwriting. To make another analogy, it's like a multiple choice test. A kid who didn't study and doesn't know dick about the subject matter still has a non-zero chance of getting an A simply by choosing whatever random answer strikes his fancy. The difference between him and the kids who get an A on every test is that they KNOW the right answers.

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    • #47
      Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

      Originally posted by DaltWisney View Post
      Regarding M. Night...

      If we're assuming that he has "fallen off" since writing THE SIXTH SENSE then aren't we assuming that THE SIXTH SENSE was an accurate representation of his level?
      SIGNS was a solid script, as was THE VILLAGE. Not as good as THE 6TH SENSE, perhaps, but certainly solid.

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      • #48
        Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

        It's funny someone likened writing to AA... I was thinking it was more like drinking. Because, what's better than the beer you're drinking?
        The next one.

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        • #49
          Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

          I look at it as being a painter. Artists first few paintings are probably not going to be that great, but they'll get better after each one they do.

          But ... there are people out there who have that natural artistic ability.

          For me, my earliest scripts were bad, but I didn't know it back then. I should have had a clue when I couldn't explain to people what the scripts were about in a sentence or two.

          But it's true what people say. Your early scripts aren't bad, they just aren't finished. But then again, which ones are?

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          • #50
            Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

            IMHO, you can't apply this allegory of how to write that great script... until you write on a professional level.

            really, you are asking, how can I learn to write like a professional writer, not when will I sell a piece of sh!t...

            You need to be passionate about the material and really know the product you are sending out is top notch, not good, not as good as, but better and you as a writer can make it better.
            But this wily god never discloses even to the skillful questioner the whole content of his wisdom.

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            • #51
              Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

              Originally posted by DaltWisney View Post
              The second script I ever wrote placed in a major competition and got me some attention from managers/producers/etc. It only took three weeks to write. I had only been writing scripts for a month when I wrote it.

              Instant success.

              But here's the thing...over the next couple years I wrote several more scripts.

              They sucked.

              Some of them REALLY sucked.

              I wasn't able to build on my initial success because, while I had some talent, I didn't know diddly squat about screenwriting. I was just a guy who got lucky and wrote a script that was way above his level.

              Think of it this way...if you step onto a basketball court and try to hit a turnaround three-point jumper, there's a non-zero probability that it will go in. What separates the average weekend rec player from the guys in the NBA is the ability to make that shot consistently.

              A screenplay is a series of creative decisions. Even someone with no real understanding of the craft might get lucky and piece together something of reasonable quality. The difference is that a pro can do it almost every single time because they know exactly what they're doing.

              When an amateur makes an incredible basketball shot, it's luck.

              When a pro makes that shot, it's skill.

              I don't think most neophyte writers have the knowledge, understanding, and experience needed to consistently deliver. They can get lucky sometimes, but only the really smart/dedicated ones and the prodigies/geniuses are truly ready for a career from the moment they write their first script.
              This is worth quoting.

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              • #52
                Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

                My two pence:

                I posted pages from my first two scripts in the pro section. They didn't go down well. tired, formulaic, bad dialogue, unrealistic character actions etc.

                Another guy, via PM, also ripped the pages to shreds. Pulled no punches.

                I sent pages of my 3rd to 2 resident pros. Both were highly enthusiastic and one even asked for more pages. What a turn around!

                Now I am not consciously aware of any improvements but there has obviously been a seismic shift in the quality. I have noticed my a/d tend to be 2 lines instead of 4 and I've dropped a lot of the flowery stuff (never thought I'd see the day).

                Another (kind of) positive is that when I look back at my 2nd, with its themes and subplots, I know it's not working. I can't quite identify why but I just know. Maybe in a while that will come clearer and stand me in good stead for my 4th.
                Last edited by 1mper1um; 06-18-2011, 01:18 PM.

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                • #53
                  Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

                  FWIW - I just sold the third spec I've written (to date, I've only yet written 4 features). It's set for production second half of 2011.

                  Never say never.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

                    Awesome! Can you give any details? What's it about? Budget? Payday? How you sold it? How long it took? Etc.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

                      Originally posted by 1mper1um View Post
                      Awesome! Can you give any details? What's it about? Budget? Payday? How you sold it? How long it took? Etc.
                      Can't really talk about it too much (signed some agreements). Same with budget, although its enough to make me smile.

                      How it sold? I basically got fed up with managers/agents not replying to queries so I targeted Producers directly. Got a few bites and one got to it before another did (though I now have an "open-door" with that other Producer, which is cool).

                      How long? I wrote the outline about a yr & a half ago, came back to it in January this year, then got it to where it was when it was sold about two weeks ago. There's still further drafting with key creatives but that's expected.

                      Cheers dude.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

                        Originally posted by one seven spectrum View Post
                        ...How it sold? I basically got fed up with managers/agents not replying to queries so I targeted Producers directly...
                        That's the way, Dude/Dudette!

                        Me? I have 14 reads going on at present -- all producers (one may be classified as a manager/producer) but absolutely no agents. The Agent/Manager crowd never returns my messages.

                        So, hopefully like you I'll soon have the opportunity to pose that most awesome paradoxical question:

                        Why does a producer think my "crappy" script is good enough to spend money on, when no agent/manager thought it was good enough to even rep me on?!

                        I've said it for a year now: Until they make it illegal, why not go directly to the buyer

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                        • #57
                          Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

                          This thread's still going on? "Are first, second, third screenplays always bad?"

                          Of course not. Unless they're written by a minority, then, yes, of course, they're bad.

                          HH

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                          • #58
                            Re: Are First, Second, Third Screenplays Always Bad?

                            I mean no agent/manager disrespect in what I said though. I just thought "Why not contact Producer's directly?" and it paid off. I'll still query managers/agents with my next spec, which should be completed soon.

                            Here in Australia, managers have a strong "no submission" policy, usually they only take on new clients based on a referral. And a writer with no prior credits? Forget it.

                            I'm a dude btw.

                            Best,
                            Evan.

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