Should we all be writing books instead?

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  • #46
    Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

    Is a screenplay a finished product? Of course. If it weren't, the copyright office wouldn't let me register it, and Amazon and other places wouldn't let me publish mine as Kindle eBooks.

    And don't forget that the goal of pretty well every novelist is to see his/her work eventually as a film:

    "Whoops! Where's the screenplay!?"

    So whose product is more complete than the other?

    Well, I won't get into that argument. Both are. From the foregoing, we might think a film is the most complete, but you'd get plenty of debate there, too.

    As for film awards, most notably the Oscars, I barely care who wins the best Adapted Screenplay, but one of my favorites is the one for Best Original Screenplay. That's spec screenplay, to you and me.

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    • #47
      Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

      Sure you can read a screenplay like anything else, but until people will pay to read a script that was never a movie by a nobody then please let's not pretend it's the same thing as a book.

      I'm a film and TV nerd. I'm not happy about this. I'm just being practical.

      And in other threads, we talked about how IP is some important and we should all write articles to adapt -- well that's very true.

      Some of the most successful people in Hollywood don't even write one word in film. They write books that get adapted.

      My main point was maybe me, you, we, should try to tell our stories in a different medium to see if we had success. I know many of you already do that.

      I know deep in my heart, I would be the perfect TV writer. If I could give myself a job it would be on a TV comedy in the 80s.

      But being a TV writer requires not just talent and a great script, but many other things. I'm attracted to the book world because of course there is tons of crap there too keeping you out -- but it for sure is more direct. I know literary agents, my wife's best friend is one.

      So unlike film, they aren't saying, wait who will play the lead in this novel? Do we have enough money to make this novel? All those questions that keep our specs from selling aren't the same in the prose world. That is intriguing as hell.

      My next thread is going to be titled -- should i be in development instead? Because sometimes I feel like that too. That I would enjoy helping other writers get their **** done.

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      • #48
        Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

        Originally posted by Bono View Post
        I'm most intrigued that the novel is meant to be a finished product while the screenplay is just a blueprint that can one day lead to a finished product.
        Because the book is the end product, just as the movie is the end product of the script.

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        • #49
          Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

          I'd argue that the movie is the end product of an adapted script, but a spec script is as final a product as a novel. It's just that spec writers haven't yet found, or properly exploited, a market for their stories.

          For example, I've (only) made several hundred dollars off my Kindles:
          catcon (Steve Garry) on Amazon
          But I've not promoted them at all. In their endless quest for original, interesting stories, readers simply find them, somehow. (I hope this will change dramatically, as I admit that I have to have one traditional sale to HW or somewhere, before anybody will want to check out all my other stuff.)

          Unless, of course, you're getting confused about the weird formatting in scripts, such that this is the reason they're not 'finished' works. Because there's a lot of strangely-formatted stuff out there, that sells tons.

          Check out other published 'final' products for sale, such as poetry, blogging, top 10 lists, how-to instructions, fiction and non-fiction, etc. etc. Readers have different tastes for different media. For example, how about cookbooks, some of the biggest sellers out there... wait, the final product is the meal you cook! Doesn't count! Cookbooks aren't 'final products'!

          I could go on and on.

          Unless... maybe this is just more of the old 'let us keep screenwriters low on the totem pole' thing. We dare not encourage them to copyright their scripts, oh no, can't do that. They might just start to think they own their ideas! And would want to write sequels/spin-offs, and maybe even make short films or graphic novels or animes of their work, and actually begin to exploit their own ideas! On-line sales of T-Shirts, toys, posters and coffee mugs, anyone? What?! Can't have that! How would we non-creative development management types make any money if writers started to do that! Gosh, darn, we'd only be left with... with... with... providing coverage and notes and holding contests and consulting. Or being 'opinion leaders' by calling ourselves 'movie critics'. Why, in the end writers might almost try to claim they're as important as actors, and start demanding $15M per film! Worst of all, writers might start to pitch their own stories to financiers, and form their own prodcos, and do away with reps and producers altogether! Call the Guild! Have them stop it, right now! Call in the FTC. Where's our lawyer! Writers are writers... they're not allowed to do anything but! Why... why... it would be... the end of things as they are!
          This extract was from my yet-to-be-published short: "The Producer who woke up in a sweat, but couldn't remember his dream for the life of him."

          Just havin' fun with ya'.

          Carry on carrying on.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

            Originally posted by Bono View Post
            Did you find writing one harder or the same? Just different?
            Both of my novels are first person, male protagonists. There are not as many technical challenges as features or TV, but they definitely take longer. So, easier but longer.

            I find the hardest format to really nail conceptually is the half-hour comedy pilot. One that sets up an entire series of television, like the Cheers pilot did. Right now I'm working on one and I've got all of the ingredients, but it is still not clicking on the page. I'm about to do a fifth draft. I keep swinging! So by the time I'm done, it either will never work, or I'll have written a novel getting there.

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            • #51
              Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

              Originally posted by hscope View Post
              If only the difference between screenplays and novels was the number of words!

              The lure of novel writing for me is that I can get into the characters' inner world and explore the stories in much greater depth than I can in a script. However, my screenwriting experience has been invaluable in helping to convey the subtle visual aspects and how the scenes on the page 'look' for the reader (that's my intention, anyway). Each novel is a huge, time-consuming challenge, but overall I find it more satisfying than scriptwriting.
              I love going into their heads also! I love being able to have a character think to himself, "I hate my mother!" instead of having to find a way to express this externally in a film. The thoughts you'd never admit to are a lot easier to get out in a novel. Especially if your narrator is a jerk or duplicitous. It can be quite fun. I just read a novel with a jealous, sociopathic narrator and it was so much fun to hear her unrelenting thoughts that were always at odds with the scene that was unfolding. It's a book called The Last Mrs. Parrish that Reese Witherspoon has picked up to adapt.

              I think the way they adapted Gone Girl was perfect. You needed the voice over to convey that interior stuff. VO doesn't work in every adaptation, but it did in that one. The Mrs. Parrish novel is not as masterful as Gone Girl, but it's going to be in the same ballpark, and it will be interesting to see how they externalize that nasty interior dialogue.

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              • #52
                Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
                Both of my novels are first person, male protagonists. There are not as many technical challenges as features or TV, but they definitely take longer. So, easier but longer.

                I find the hardest format to really nail conceptually is the half-hour comedy pilot. One that sets up an entire series of television, like the Cheers pilot did. Right now I'm working on one and I've got all of the ingredients, but it is still not clicking on the page. I'm about to do a fifth draft. I keep swinging! So by the time I'm done, it either will never work, or I'll have written a novel getting there.
                I agree on that CHEERS pilot is great, but man do I love doing those. And yes most are impossible because it takes 6-10 episodes to get to know the characters as a writer, an audience before it's funny. Jokes that can be funny with friends don't work with strangers. First season of The Office and Parks and Rec aren't good at all -- they revamped as they went, Parks the most -- and they are amazing.

                So in other words few pilots are great. PM me if you want someone to read your pilot for a new set of eyes.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                  Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
                  I think the way they adapted Gone Girl was perfect. You needed the voice over to convey that interior stuff. VO doesn't work in every adaptation, but it did in that one. The Mrs. Parrish novel is not as masterful as Gone Girl, but it's going to be in the same ballpark, and it will be interesting to see how they externalize that nasty interior dialogue.
                  I thought it was 'nearly' perfect. I had one note, it didn't make it in. Maybe for good reason. Perhaps it would have been too much, but I would have liked it if she revealed she had something on him ("Remember that sh!t I've been hiding for you all these years? Shut the fukk up, help me pick out baby clothes! :FADE TO BLACK.) They are both equally as fukked up. I would have dug that, but whatever. That's probably not the girl fantasy. They want to think you'll stay for the baby.

                  Not me... "BYE PSYCHO!"

                  Regardless, I did enjoy the movie and thought she nailed the first draft. Almost nothing changed. Fincher loved the first draft. Studio, same.

                  And yeah, like I've said, super fukking coincidental that I started dating a chick who is constantly being mistaken for GONE GIRL around the time the movie came out. The interesting thing is that people don't say "Are you Rosamund Pike?" They say "Are you Gone Girl?" Apparently my chick looks a fukk ton like Rosamund Pike, but to the world, Rosamund Pike is 'Gone Girl.' Literally happens once a week. The "missing" poster looks creepily just like my chick.

                  Is my chick as psycho...? meh... debatable. Ha!

                  https://imgur.com/a/sjjhCzo

                  My chick [link]. Do you see it? Maybe not the best angle to see it. But it's A LOT we get stopped. Maybe you'd get it more in person...
                  Last edited by GucciGhostXXX; 07-30-2019, 02:54 PM.
                  Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                    Originally posted by GucciGhostXXX View Post
                    I thought it was 'nearly' perfect. I had one note, it didn't make it in. Maybe for good reason. Perhaps it would have been too much, but I would have liked it if she revealed she had something on him ("Remember that sh!t I've been hiding for you all these years? Shut the fukk up, help me pick out baby clothes! :FADE TO BLACK.) They are both equally as fukked up. I would have dug that, but whatever. That's probably not the girl fantasy. They want to think you'll stay for the baby.

                    Not me... "BYE PSYCHO!"

                    Regardless, I did enjoy the movie and thought she nailed the first draft. Almost nothing changed. Fincher loved the first draft. Studio, same.

                    And yeah, like I've said, super fukking coincidental that I started dating a chick who is constantly being mistaken for GONE GIRL around the time the movie came out. The interesting thing is that people don't say "Are you Rosamund Pike?" They say "Are you Gone Girl?" Apparently my chick looks a fukk ton like Rosamund Pike, but to the world, Rosamund Pike is 'Gone Girl.' Literally happens once a week. The "missing" poster looks creepily just like my chick.

                    Is my chick as psycho...? meh... debatable. Ha!
                    First off, if you're dating Rosamund Pike's doppelganger, then you're doing something right. I think she's beautiful. I've seen her other work, so I don't just think she's the Gone Girl girl. But most people only know her from that movie. I'd use the word ethereal to describe her. Very cinematic.

                    Second, I thought the adaption was as perfect as you could get it. My take away -- and I don't know if this was intended by Gillian Flynn in the novel or the movie -- was that Nick realizes that he and Amy are bad people, and that they deserve each other. And also to make sure the kid survives her parenting. But mostly that they deserve each other. :-)

                    I love Gillian Flynn's writing. After I read Gone Girl, I read Sharp Objects also (haven't seen the TV show yet) and I tried her other one, Dark Places, but it was actually too dark for me. After fifty pages, I realized I didn't want to be in the headspace of her characters at all! Not that book.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                      Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
                      First off, if you're dating Rosamund Pike's doppelganger, then you're doing something right. I think she's beautiful. I've seen her other work, so I don't just think she's the Gone Girl girl. But most people only know her from that movie. I'd use the word ethereal to describe her. Very cinematic.

                      Second, I thought the adaption was as perfect as you could get it. My take away -- and I don't know if this was intended by Gillian Flynn in the novel or the movie -- was that Nick realizes that he and Amy are bad people, and that they deserve each other. And also to make sure the kid survives her parenting. But mostly that they deserve each other. :-)

                      I love Gillian Flynn's writing. After I read Gone Girl, I read Sharp Objects also (haven't seen the TV show yet) and I tried her other one, Dark Places, but it was actually too dark for me. After fifty pages, I realized I didn't want to be in the headspace of her characters at all! Not that book.

                      I added a link to a pic of my chick. Probably looks more like her straight on. We get stopped all the time. It's trippy. I'm definitely a lucky guy!


                      Yeah, I got that from the book and the film (bad people who deserved each other, and that was definitely her point. I dig that conceit, it's realistic in a way most people don't want to cop to.). Just, for me, one notch up would have been cool. Regardless, excellent book/movie IMO.

                      Yup, Sharp Objects. My ex sold that. Still haven't seen it.
                      Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                        Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
                        ...was that Nick realizes that he and Amy are bad people, and that they deserve each other. And also to make sure the kid survives her parenting. But mostly that they deserve each other. :-) ...
                        I think you're being very optimistic.

                        In Jan 2017, I finished a script called "American Genocide". I didn't see Gone Girl till this year (and have watched it twice), but unfortunately I have a different point of view of that couple's future. I can even imagine that some who share my opinion might conclude that my story is a sequel to GG, set about 14 years later... Not a happy family unit, I'm afraid. But, like GG, beneath all the gore and confusion my story is a social satire, and a warning.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                          Originally posted by catcon View Post
                          I think you're being very optimistic.

                          In Jan 2017, I finished a script called "American Genocide". I didn't see Gone Girl till this year (and have watched it twice), but unfortunately I have a different point of view of that couple's future. I can even imagine that some who share my opinion might conclude that my story is a sequel to GG, set about 14 years later... Not a happy family unit, I'm afraid. But, like GG, beneath all the gore and confusion my story is a social satire, and a warning.
                          I don't want to speak for her, but I think that was her point "Their story ends badly... it's ugly until the bitter end... which is why they're the perfect couple."

                          It's as if she's asking, in the broad sense, if "Happily Ever After" even exists, or if this IS what happily ever after looks like.

                          I'm not sure she said where she saw the story going after the end. That's just my guess.
                          Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                            Well, that's her right to write a sequel! (I haven't read the book, but I'm sure it'd be a hit.)

                            Since I saw GG for the second time, a few weeks ago, like any movie-watcher I was wondering what might happen next, after baby came.

                            But that's what got me thinking about my story, which has two crazy parents with two kids (girl 13, boy 9) and you can only imagine the mess the adults made of things.

                            But this was after I'd seen the brilliant Nightcrawler (Jake G.) twice also, this year, and thought my story could be a ba$tard child of that movie, too.

                            I have no clue if viewers would make similar conclusions, but it's fun to think about it.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                              Originally posted by catcon View Post
                              Well, that's her right to write a sequel! (I haven't read the book, but I'm sure it'd be a hit.)

                              Since I saw GG for the second time, a few weeks ago, like any movie-watcher I was wondering what might happen next, after baby came.

                              But that's what got me thinking about my story, which has two crazy parents with two kids (girl 13, boy 9) and you can only imagine the mess the adults made of things.

                              But this was after I'd seen the brilliant Nightcrawler (Jake G.) twice also, this year, and thought my story could be a ba$tard child of that movie, too.

                              I have no clue if viewers would make similar conclusions, but it's fun to think about it.
                              Gone Girl meets Nightcrawler... I don't know what that is, but I want to see it. I prefer stories centering on really fukked up people [I don't relate to perfectly well adjusted people]. Personally, I don't need a happy ending... because I doubt I'll get to leave this life on a high note. Even if I'm rich.

                              As for GG sequel, I think it could work. The kid is used as a pawn for more devious sh!t between them, or something. The gaming each other hasn't stopped. It's gotten worse...
                              Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Should we all be writing books instead?

                                I'm just seeing this. I am a published children's writer and do both. I agree if you have a talent to write try and do both. If you write the book first you can then do the screenplay later. Best of luck to everyone.

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