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Old 02-09-2012, 01:23 PM   #31
Ronaldinho
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

Suspense is a feeling created in the audience of dreading something that they know about that the audience doesn't. However, it is different from dramatic irony because there is no different meaning.

Dramatic irony is the situation where the meaning of a moment is different because the audience knows something the characters don't.

Situational irony is when actions have a result the opposite of what was intended.

Irony, in general, means that the meaning is different from the literal meaning.

So the situation with the bomb under the table is suspense, but it's NOT dramatic irony unless, for example, I'm inviting you to stay with me for tea, and I know there's a bomb (as the audience does) and I know that you staying for tea will result in you getting blown up. In that case, it can be both suspense and dramatic irony, but dramatic irony specifically requires the changed meaning.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:39 PM   #32
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

Interesting read: http://www.k-state.edu/english/baker...atic_irony.htm

Also, I like the definition in Merriam-Webster: incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play

Last edited by Dr. Vergerus : 02-09-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
@asjah8: It was meant to be an example of what I think is a wrong understanding of dramatic irony, taken to the absurd extreme.

Going back to the situation of the bomb under the table, I think we could speak of dramatic irony if, for example, the couple at the table are lovers, holding hands and planning a future together with a white picket fence and three kids; the dramatic irony comes from the distance between their hopes and dreams, and the reality that we know and they ignore; we are like God looking at them and thinking "you poor things..."

"Irony" because of the contradiction between both terms, expectation and outcome. "Dramatic" because they are both meaningful and have a certain intensity. There's nothing dramatic about sitting at a table and not expect anything unusual to happen.

@The Road Warrior: I think he used this example in the book of interviews with Truffaut, but I haven't read it in a while. What do you think of my example in the second paragraph?

I have that Truffaut book somewhere...

but in the Penguin Dic of Lit terms, there's a further type of DI, which may fit your example Vert', I'll type out the main section then bold the second part-

"dramatic irony: when the audience understand the implication and meaning of a situation on stage, or what is being said, but the characters do not. Common in Tragedy and Comedy, Oedipus does not realize his crime. Sir Peter Teazle does not know that his wife is behind the screens when he is talking about her toJoseph Surface (In School for Scandal)

Another kind of dramatic irony occurs when a character's words 'recoil' upon him. For instance, Macbeth's 'bloody instructions' which 'return/To plague th' inventor'. In the event he is the one thus plagued. "

It's more of a literary example but that makes no difference, so does that make your example right, if the end of your story shows the outcome of their lives? Or even foreshadows it, I think it does?
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Last edited by The Road Warrior : 02-09-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:22 PM   #34
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

How is the Penguin Dic of Lit terms? Would you recommend it?
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:25 PM   #35
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

Emily is definitely right. She provided a clear and concise definition as well as example.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

... just reading further on irony generally and thought this was worth quoting and in a way it backs up what Emily is saying about the dangers of 'overthinking', which is sometimes an indulgence here... yes.

"In Europe the concept of irony devoloped gradually and lagged far behind the practice of it. This is especially noticeable in view of the fact that by 1750 Dryden, Swift, Voltaire, Pope, Fielding and Johnson (to name only a handful of writers) had shown themselves supremely adept in the uses of this particular form of expression.
In the wake of an increasing nuimber of practitioners came the analysts and theorists.
and Done Deal-ists."

D.I. is a part of the development of irony, in general, but analysis came late, in other words.

To me, this means, don't box it in too quickly into any checklist, ironic juxtaposition, romantic irony, situational irony, these are each 'categories' open and flexible, but they are all related...

anyway, enough of that...
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Last edited by The Road Warrior : 02-09-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:48 PM   #37
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
How is the Penguin Dic of Lit terms? Would you recommend it?
It's exceptional imho, this partic edition is by J.A. CUDDON, it was old when I found it, 1979, but may have been updated, (but like Fowlers, from 2nd to 3rd, these things get ruined, sometimes) and it's the best dic of lit terms I've come across, just 'something' about the way it's written, the section on irony is anything but dry or too detailed, it explains how it originated, and split, evolved, by ref to plays/other works...

http://www.amazon.com/Penguin-Dictio...sr=1-1-catcorr
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:09 PM   #38
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

Thanks!
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Road Warrior View Post

"dramatic irony: when the audience understand the implication and meaning of a situation on stage, or what is being said, but the characters do not. Common in Tragedy and Comedy, Oedipus does not realize his crime. Sir Peter Teazle does not know that his wife is behind the screens when he is talking about her toJoseph Surface (In School for Scandal)
People who think screenplays cannot be great works of literature are crazy.

How about when two characters misunderstand each other but the audience knows what each character means. The misunderstandings could lead to tragic or comic outcomes.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:43 AM   #40
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Default Re: Dramatic Irony

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People who think screenplays cannot be great works of literature are crazy.

How about when two characters misunderstand each other but the audience knows what each character means. The misunderstandings could lead to tragic or comic outcomes.
I remember that debate jon, I was on the screenplays as literature side if you recall, but I think we lost.
It doesn't bother me that screenplays may not be great works of literature, anymore...
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