Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

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  • Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

    Hello everyone:
    I've posted my logline on my latest screenplay Trackers and I received a PM from someone (a writer I suppose) claiming that they had the same title and logline out for reads last year and accused me of lifting if from them. I have no idea who this person is, but--

    I've had this concept since 2006 and have it registered with the WGA in a few versions. This is the fourth page one rewrite of it. It's my baby-- a very important project to me because it was my first concept (I've written other scripts, too) that turned me onto writing screenplays and it's high concept is appealing.

    I always knew that one day I'd be skilled enough to execute it, and I believe that day has come. I've got plenty of records to show that I've worked on this concept, registered it, had it out for reads and even sent earlier versions out to prodcos.

    I realized it was possibly a mistake to post/share story concepts and loglines within that writing group of several hundred writers when I noticed another writer post a similar logline a year or two after I'd workshopped mine.

    I mentioned that I had workshopped the same concept in the few years prior and posted my logline, as I recall. I understand parallel development. I understand that people get the same idea.

    But I never accused them or anyone of stealing my idea. After that I stopped sharing information about my concept.

    But to have someone outright accuse me of stealing their logline and title is insulting and just pisses me off to no end. Not to mention that this person offers a veiled threat, that their work is copyright protected and that I should rethink it.

    Am I being oversensitive because I'm so shocked?

    I know that loglines and titles are not protected under copyright, and I'm certain that unless they've read my work, it's impossible that the execution is even close to mine- it's unique. My work will stand on it's own and only a very small group of people are privy to this latest version. I'm not worried about it being the same.

    I've worked hard over the past several years to hone my craft and the last thing I want is for someone going around accusing ME of stealing their idea--

    What do I do? Worry. Don't worry? I've asked who the writer is and sent them my real name as well.

    Advice is appreciated.
    Best,
    FA4
    Last edited by finalact4; 06-22-2013, 07:22 AM. Reason: added information/spelling
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

  • #2
    Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

    Assuming that you didn't steal it - even subconsciously - all I can say is:

    Meh.

    The more successful you are, the more people will accuse you of ripping them off.

    Loglines and titles aren't protectable.

    Ignore the guy and proceed. If he wants to come after you, which is unlikely, it sounds like you're covered. More likely is that if you have some success, he'll get pissed off, and if he gets as far as talking to a lawyer the lawyer will say, "No case here."

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    • #3
      Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

      Sounds like you have all your bases covered so don't worry. However for the sake of the integrity of the board (aka: juicy gossip) I think you should name the individual. Then we can conduct a public hearing and the loser will be stoned to death. What say you?
      M.A.G.A.

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      • #4
        Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

        I wouldn't worry about it. As you said, this stuff happens. I once jokingly came up with a movie idea with a certain title, and literally hours later the trades announced the exact same movie with the exact same title as an A-list director's next project.

        Without reading this other person's script, however, don't be so sure that the executions aren't at all similar. Even if they are, it doesn't mean anyone stole anything. Just keep writing it.

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        • #5
          Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

          Don't communicate with them. Don't respond to their accusations. Don't waste your time trying to defend yourself. And above all, don't ever read a copy of their script; don't ask to see it, return it to them unread if they send it to you, etc. All it is right now is talk, and you should not engage in talking with a person who's accusing you of IP theft.

          I know it might be tempting to want to take a look at their script and see if there really are similarities, but you want to maintain a level of insulation and as wide a distance as possible between yourself and this person. There's really nothing to worry about at this point, but if this person does take it to the next level and, for example, files a lawsuit that accuses you of infringement, your strongest position is to say, "I've never even read this person's script, I haven't talked to this person about their concept, there's no way I could have stolen it because this person and I quite simply have never spoken about his project." All that goes out the window if you have email chains of discussion going back and forth, or have a copy of the script sitting in your inbox.

          At this point, it's just a stupid allegation and one that, in all likelihood, will never go anywhere because you know you didn't steal it and - if that's the case - he's going to have a hell of a hard time proving that you did.

          Don't engage with this person. If you feel like a response is necessary, you should talk to an attorney about how to respond without opening yourself to any liability or putting yourself in a disadvantageous legal position. I've seen far too many people put themselves in a worse position by simply trying to hash out a situation themselves... your best move is to ignore or consult an attorney about taking a legal position if you feel strongly enough that a response is necessary.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

            Originally posted by SoCalScribe View Post
            Don't communicate with them. Don't respond to their accusations. Don't waste your time trying to defend yourself. And above all, don't ever read a copy of their script; don't ask to see it, return it to them unread if they send it to you, etc. All it is right now is talk, and you should not engage in talking with a person who's accusing you of IP theft.

            I know it might be tempting to want to take a look at their script and see if there really are similarities, but you want to maintain a level of insulation and as wide a distance as possible between yourself and this person. There's really nothing to worry about at this point, but if this person does take it to the next level and, for example, files a lawsuit that accuses you of infringement, your strongest position is to say, "I've never even read this person's script, I haven't talked to this person about their concept, there's no way I could have stolen it because this person and I quite simply have never spoken about his project." All that goes out the window if you have email chains of discussion going back and forth, or have a copy of the script sitting in your inbox.

            At this point, it's just a stupid allegation and one that, in all likelihood, will never go anywhere because you know you didn't steal it and - if that's the case - he's going to have a hell of a hard time proving that you did.

            Don't engage with this person. If you feel like a response is necessary, you should talk to an attorney about how to respond without opening yourself to any liability or putting yourself in a disadvantageous legal position. I've seen far too many people put themselves in a worse position by simply trying to hash out a situation themselves... your best move is to ignore or consult an attorney about taking a legal position if you feel strongly enough that a response is necessary.
            Thanks, SoCalScribe. I feel better. I appreciate the advice. It didn't even occur to me to read his script-- not really interested in it, or anything about it, you know. Just wanna work on selling mine.

            Thanks to everyone else, too. I'm just gonna let it pass-- but man for a few moments I was really freaked out.
            Best,
            FA4
            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

              Originally posted by SoCalScribe View Post
              Don't communicate with them. Don't respond to their accusations. Don't waste your time trying to defend yourself. And above all, don't ever read a copy of their script; don't ask to see it, return it to them unread if they send it to you, etc. All it is right now is talk, and you should not engage in talking with a person who's accusing you of IP theft.

              I know it might be tempting to want to take a look at their script and see if there really are similarities, but you want to maintain a level of insulation and as wide a distance as possible between yourself and this person. There's really nothing to worry about at this point, but if this person does take it to the next level and, for example, files a lawsuit that accuses you of infringement, your strongest position is to say, "I've never even read this person's script, I haven't talked to this person about their concept, there's no way I could have stolen it because this person and I quite simply have never spoken about his project." All that goes out the window if you have email chains of discussion going back and forth, or have a copy of the script sitting in your inbox.

              At this point, it's just a stupid allegation and one that, in all likelihood, will never go anywhere because you know you didn't steal it and - if that's the case - he's going to have a hell of a hard time proving that you did.

              Don't engage with this person. If you feel like a response is necessary, you should talk to an attorney about how to respond without opening yourself to any liability or putting yourself in a disadvantageous legal position. I've seen far too many people put themselves in a worse position by simply trying to hash out a situation themselves... your best move is to ignore or consult an attorney about taking a legal position if you feel strongly enough that a response is necessary.
              Concur.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                You may know about parallel development, but many people don't, and they're not trying to insult you, they are literally sure you stole their script.

                You say you're sure reading the two scripts will show they are completely different. I am not so sure about that. If you two worked completely independently on the same high concept idea, there's a very good chance some of your scenes and story choices will be amazingly alike, because mining the concept would pretty much require those scenes and story choices. So you might read the other person's script and be just as sure that the other writer stole from you as the other writer is sure you did the stealing, even if no stealing happened in either direction. This is the precise reason that submission release forms are so often required of unrepresented writers. People in the industry are tired of being sued when a writer sends them a script similar to something they've been working on.

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                • #9
                  Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                  the chances of doing parallel work with someone you don't know is valid, it happens, but the chances of doing parallel work including the same title is greyish

                  Just keep it moving, keep writing
                  Last edited by actiontalogy; 06-25-2013, 01:55 PM. Reason: typo

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                  • #10
                    Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                    Originally posted by Joaneasley View Post
                    You may know about parallel development, but many people don't, and they're not trying to insult you, they are literally sure you stole their script.

                    You say you're sure reading the two scripts will show they are completely different. I am not so sure about that. If you two worked completely independently on the same high concept idea, there's a very good chance some of your scenes and story choices will be amazingly alike, because mining the concept would pretty much require those scenes and story choices. So you might read the other person's script and be just as sure that the other writer stole from you as the other writer is sure you did the stealing, even if no stealing happened in either direction. This is the precise reason that submission release forms are so often required of unrepresented writers. People in the industry are tired of being sued when a writer sends them a script similar to something they've been working on.
                    Yes, you're right. I didn't mean to imply that there wouldn't be similarities, and of course there will be similarities-- maybe I was trying to put myself at ease? Perhaps.

                    I wouldn't accuse anyone of theft, though, unless I knew they had my script before they wrote theirs. But I was in a writer's group where the instructor works with writers to develop their concepts over and over and over again and I became concerned when another logline popped up almost identical to mine from a writer in a later group-- even down to using the words 'hijacked memories" which was a workshopped pitch, and that's when I decided to stop sharing story details/concepts. I mean that's a reach. I had workshopped my logline months before-- at least that's the way I remember it.

                    This writer said something about his character that reminded of this other writer in my group who was pitching a logline similar to mine that made me think it was the same situation. I gave him my name, asked him if he was in the group, but he said no, and did not offer his in return. He just seems to dismiss it after I told him my registration history.

                    I simply didn't know any better. Everyone in the group signed a disclosure but over time I think sometimes people can come up with an idea and think it's their own when it actually might have come from something they've read previously, or a discussion with someone else.

                    I asked him if he was in that group and he said no, then seemed to dismiss it as a problem all together. I gave him my name. I do not know his.

                    Or if someone's working with many story concepts, that inherently, then may inadvertently 'give' story advice that might be actually taken from someone else's idea. I'm sure that kind of stuff happens, too.

                    You know, the producer who has six writers come in and pitch a take on a story and then have some form of that information from a writer that may not have gotten job, ends up in the story anyway-- it can be completely unintentional.

                    Isn't is possible?

                    It is distressing, but I can't do anything about it. All I can do is make certain that I've written an amazing, stand out script-- and if it doesn't pass muster, that's on me.

                    Thanks for your contribution. It's a good to keep it real.
                    Best,
                    FA4
                    Last edited by finalact4; 06-25-2013, 03:01 PM.
                    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                      Originally posted by actiontalogy View Post
                      the chances of doing parallel work with someone you don't know is valid, it happens, but the chances of doing parallel work including the same title is greyish

                      Just keep it moving, keep writing
                      omg, I just got 4 private messages from him, one calling me a liar. Stating there's no registration at the WGA. I have two certificates in my hand. Not to mention I have plenty of records that show when I created my files. Even when I sent them out to get reviews from my peers. I think their manager is involved now.

                      I gave him the dates and my registration numbers.

                      I mean, I even have notes from Carson Reeves when he reviewed a draft from 2010.

                      I still don't know who they are-- except that they are a writing team. I just want them to stop.
                      FA4
                      Last edited by finalact4; 06-25-2013, 03:48 PM. Reason: added text.
                      "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                        it's frustrating, but do what socalscribe says, and don't engage in any further dialog. Keep a record of all communication including a hard copy of emails/messages. If you are concerned about any escalation consult an attorney and have available a paper trail for you work.
                        "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                          Originally posted by DavidK View Post
                          it's frustrating, but do what socalscribe says, and don't engage in any further dialog. Keep a record of all communication including a hard copy of emails/messages. If you are concerned about any escalation consult an attorney and have available a paper trail for you work.
                          Thanks, DavidK, will do.
                          Best,
                          FA4
                          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                            I mean, I even have notes from Carson Reeves
                            Somehow, with that guy's infamy here at DD, it brought to mind the "Randolph Scott" scene in Blazing Saddles.

                            In any event, I urge you especially to heed this advice:

                            Originally posted by SoCalScribe View Post

                            If you feel like a response is necessary, you should talk to an attorney about how to respond without opening yourself to any liability or putting yourself in a disadvantageous legal position. I've seen far too many people put themselves in a worse position by simply trying to hash out a situation themselves...
                            See, you could send this guy the world's best F-U e-mail ever, but inadvertently include something that lawyers call "an admission".

                            What confuses the hell out of me, and I'd certainly get a lawyer to work this out, is if I were in your position and this happens: Someone wants to option my script, and in the agreement I have to say that I have all rights to this script. Fine. But do I have to disclose to the buyer that some delusional person claims I stole it? I have no idea. And that's why (at least at that point) I'd lawyer-up.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Accusations of Theft -- From My High Concept

                              Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                              Somehow, with that guy's infamy here at DD, it brought to mind the "Randolph Scott" scene in Blazing Saddles.

                              In any event, I urge you especially to heed this advice:



                              See, you could send this guy the world's best F-U e-mail ever, but inadvertently include something that lawyers call "an admission".

                              What confuses the hell out of me, and I'd certainly get a lawyer to work this out, is if I were in your position and this happens: Someone wants to option my script, and in the agreement I have to say that I have all rights to this script. Fine. But do I have to disclose to the buyer that some delusional person claims I stole it? I have no idea. And that's why (at least at that point) I'd lawyer-up.
                              I feel like a **** for responding, but he basically called me a liar-- that's not cool with me. I won't respond again. But I don't understand why they're hiding behind their avatar? I gave them my name, what've they got to hide?

                              Someone could take my logline and title tomorrow, and there's nothing I can do about it-- I know that. Nor would I bother. You'd think a real manager would know that, too, because loglines and titles are not copyrightable.

                              Thanks for the advice.
                              FA4
                              Last edited by finalact4; 06-25-2013, 08:36 PM. Reason: for spelling like an idiot.
                              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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