Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

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  • #16
    Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

    Let's change the title to "A Continued Learning Experience on Done Deal."

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    • #17
      Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

      Originally posted by AaronB
      Let's change the title to "A Continued Learning Experience on Done Deal."


      Seems to me CE and Pooks have sent this ghost to bed. Any chance of a sticky?
      http://wasitsomethingiwrote.blogspot.com/

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      • #18
        Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

        Anything in parentheticals is parenthetical and is considered the writer "directing." Are we gonna start splitting hairs on what is really considered a parenthetical?

        I think CE's list does a good job in showing the different sorts of things a writer might put in parentheticals. Probably most of the wrylies on that list above are unneeded... but the writer felt the need to use them.

        There's no right way or wrong way, dood. There's just your way.

        A bunch of tools on Zoetrope tell Aaron not to use them because they're unnecessary but the Passion of the Ark uses plenty of unnecessary wrylies and collects a million dollars. That's proof that it can't be wrong... and it's proof that it takes much bigger things than wrylies to bring success or failure to a script.

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        • #19
          Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

          Well, Aaron, since in another thread you talked about how the script is (obviously) too long at 140 pages, the cutting of excessive parantheticals will kill two bird with one stone.

          Here's my rule of thumb. Only use a paranthetical if the line won't make sense without it.

          For instance...

          JOHNNY
          Did you kill Sally?

          BILL
          (sarcastic)
          Yeah. I killed Sally.

          Obviously, the paranthetical is needed there. However...

          JOHNNY
          Did you kill Sally?

          BILL
          (red in the face)
          NO! I DIDN'T KILL SALLY!

          ...absolutely doesn't require that paranthetical. It may paint the picture a little better, but if you've got a script that's too long in the first place, it's best to cut all the things like that which are not necessary to tell the story.

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          • #20
            Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

            I'm sorry to have miscommunicated, but I never said my script was 140 pages...I said my script was 101 pages.

            One reviewer actually told me an action script NEEDED to be 140-160 pages, which is what my post was about.

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            • #21
              Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

              Okay, somebody illuminate me.

              Are parentheticals and wrylys the same thing?

              I was told wrylys are bad -- and usually end in "ly" and are adverbs that describe how the dialogue is delivered. Directing the actor/director.

              But I was also told that slipping brief action into parens is not the same thing -- it's action. It's also not directing, unless you consider any action "directing." It's just a shortcut.

              POOKS
              (nods)
              Of course.


              as opposed to --

              Pooks nods in agreement.

              POOKS
              Of course.


              The nod is action whether it's in a parenthetical or has its own action line. The parenthetical is just faster.

              By the way, in both examples, I'd cut the nod. It adds nothing.

              But anyway -- I really would like a clarification -- is the general consensus that ANY parenthetical is automatically considered a "wryly," whether it's an adverb or not?

              (Won't stop me from using them from time to time, but if I was told wrong, I'd like to at least know the standard terminology.)
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              my blog

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              • #22
                Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

                My current script is averaging one parenthetical per two pages. A good bit of these are used when a character starts speaking to a different person in the middle of a stretch of dialogue. I try to steer clear of wrylies, cheerfullies, somberlies, etc. as much as possible. Clarity always wins out, though.

                It's hard to "see the movie happening in your head" without seeing what the characters are doing and hearing how they speak their lines. The trick is knowing when it's really necessary. Will the scene fall apart if the actor delivers the line differently than you hear it?
                Quantum Mechanics is God's way of making sure we never really know what's going on.

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                • #23
                  Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

                  Also...is there a widely accepted way of indicating a pause in a character's speech without using (beat)?

                  I feel like I really need to retain the ability to denote a pause; perhaps I'm not correct about that, however. What say you?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

                    Also...is there a widely accepted way of indicating a pause in a character's speech without using (beat)?

                    I think you just used one of the widely accepted ways in the sentence above.
                    ...

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                    • #25
                      Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

                      THIS IS OKAY?

                      ......................DEUS
                      ........I don't understand the reasoning
                      ........behind some of the positions here.

                      Drinks his coffee.

                      ......................DEUS
                      ........How can you say this version
                      ........is okay but the next is wrong
                      ........because it uses a parenthetic
                      ........and think all parenthetics are
                      ........inherently wrong.

                      THIS IS NOT OKAY?

                      ......................DEUS
                      ........I don't understand the reasoning
                      ........behind some of the positions here.
                      ..............(Drinks his coffee)
                      ........How can you say this version
                      ........is not okay just because it uses
                      ........a parenthetic and think all parenthetics
                      ........are inherently wrong.

                      How is using the parenthetic any different than not using it in the above examples?

                      How is it over directional and why is it not overly directional to not use the parenthetic?

                      I'm not suggesting that every section of dialogue needs parenthetics or wrylies, but I don't see how anyone can defend the position that they are inherently wrong to use.

                      I use them all the time.

                      Here's my rules for when they are right to use:

                      1. When the dialog's tone and/or delivery may be incorrectly interpreted without a wrylie.

                      ...................DEUS
                      ...........(sarcastic)
                      Nice move.

                      .................DEUS
                      ............(sad)
                      I love you.

                      2. When there is a shift in the dialog's tone and/or delivery that may be incorrectly interpreted without the wrylie.

                      ...................DEUS
                      Ah, ha. He did it.
                      ...........(confused)
                      The butler did it.

                      3. To indicate a language.

                      ..................DEUS
                      ...........(in French)
                      How you doin'?

                      4. To indicate gestures and actions that are directly connected to the dialogue being spoken and the connection may be missed and/or dialogue misinterpreted without the wrylie.

                      .................DEUS
                      .......(offers a chair)
                      Have a seat.
                      ........(cocks his pistol)
                      Now.

                      5. When reacting to someone or something has a direct connection to the dialogue being spoken and the connection may be missed and/or dialogue misinterpreted without the wrylie.

                      ...............DEUS
                      .........(off Jack's stunned look)
                      That's right, Jill was a man.

                      6. When directing the dialogue toward objects or people and the direction may be incorrectly misinterpreted without the wrylie.

                      .............DEUS
                      .......(into CB radio)
                      Breaker, breaker good buddy.
                      .......(To Jack)
                      Do you think we can start a convoy?

                      7. Anytime a wrylie can help to make the read smoother and easier to understand.

                      ...............DEUS
                      ......(whipsering)
                      I see living people.
                      ......(reads monitor)
                      I see living people? That will never work.
                      ......(as he types)
                      I see "dead" people. That's much better.

                      Those are the rules I use for my own writing.

                      I've had plenty of complaints about my writing from readers, but using wrylies was never one of them.

                      Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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                      • #26
                        Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

                        What Deus said. I use parantheticals as a useful tool for conveying 'deliverable intent'
                        http://wasitsomethingiwrote.blogspot.com/

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                        • #27
                          Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope


                          I was told wrylys are bad -- and usually end in "ly" and are adverbs that describe how the dialogue is delivered. Directing the actor/director.
                          If that's the case you can just say "sad" instead of "sadly" and then it's not a wryly.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

                            Did you not read the post, Gilly?

                            Or perhaps you don't understand that "sad" is not action, it is a description of the way the dialogue is delivered whether it has a "ly" on it or not. Which is why I used the word "usually."
                            my webpage
                            my blog

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                            • #29
                              Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope


                              Or perhaps you don't understand that "sad" is not action, it is a description of the way the dialogue is delivered whether it has a "ly" on it or not. Which is why I used the word "usually."

                              I understand that whoever told you they were "bad" is an idiot.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Another lesson learned on Zoetrope

                                Inregards to your original thread:

                                That's a load of B.S. on their part. Listen, if it's my job to find the best story out there so I can sell something to those hungry hippos in Hollywood, do you think I care about how many parenthesis you make?

                                The only thing that will really matter to me is how interesting is your story.

                                This is the honest truth. You can't fake talent but you can always find a good editor.

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