The State of the Business

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  • #31
    Re: The State of the Business

    Originally posted by joe9alt View Post
    Every intelligent industry insider or pro writer I know constantly tells me that the business is cyclical and we're in a down cycle right now. I try not to think about it too much. I'm aware that the industry is somewhat hurting right now as a business but the overall state of the industry doesn't really impact what I feel I have to do at this moment in terms of my career. I still need to write scripts in my own distinct voice.
    (...)
    A writer of Tao's level and experience may be a bit frustrated at having to accept less than his quote to do a Tron 2.0 production rewrite but a writer at my level (still fighting and scratching and clawing to land my first job) would probably be more than happy to accept WGA minimum plus 10 % for the same job.


    I actually feel like this is a time of great opportunity for new writers. As Tao pointed out, studios want to pay bare minimum now and guess who's happily accepting the bare minimum? We are! Maybe some writers of Tao's level are, too, but at least us newer guys are now being considered for those high profile jobs previously earmarked for more veteran scribes. I also take heart in the fact that I am successfully laying the groundwork for my career and making progress during one of the darkest times in the history of the industry.
    There's no such time that is so tough that a tough minded individual cannot succeed with what his passion is.

    The lukewarm will go home, and leave the field to those who are serious about it.

    Regarding the Hasbro quality movies: they will have a place in the theaters for the next time, but they will not take over. A few years ago, all we got were comic book adaptations, then the video game movies, now we have the toy movies. The real movies aren't going away. If things are getting ugly outside, I go back to my world and write.

    Yes, and me, too, I would be glad to work at WGA minimum.

    It's bad for established writers that have no unique voice. They will be replaced by newer for whom it is a chance to become established themselves. WGA minimum may sound little to a veteran. But for someone working several jobs right now in addition to writing it would be great to have.

    So, if there's nothing out there, that's bad. But it won't kill me. I'll be behind my computer and write, working on my future.
    "Ecco il grande Zampano!"

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: The State of the Business

      Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
      It is a business.

      They are no longer making the movies the audience does not want to see and focusing on making the movies the audience *does* want to see.

      As a member of that audience, I want to see more movies like the BOURNE films (actual thrillers with actual thrills) and fewer films like DUPLICITY (movie star vehicles that are disguised as thrillers but do not have any actual thrills). (...)

      No reason why a popular movie can not also be a good movie. (insert my CAPTAIN BLOOD, STAGECOACH, INVASION OF THE BODYSNATCHERS, CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON, etc post stuff here.)

      I love THE GODFATHER (1 & 2) - and it is not just a great dramatic film, it has all kinds of violent action and the stuff we expect from a gangster film. I use the first 10 minutes of PART 2 when I teach classes, because it is just one hook after another, sets up the story and theme and is filled with violence and suspense and gangster genre stuff. When I see a film like MICHAEL COLLINS or DUPLICITY (hey, same writer as those BOURNE movies) the biggest problem is that they leave out the genre stuff. It's like a boring version of THE GODFATHER - stripped of machinegun fire. In that first 10 minutes of PART 2, there is a sniper killing people at Vito's dad's funeral, and the mourners scramble for cover. Vito's brother is killed. Vito's mom takes him to the Godfather to beg him to spare Vito... and while Vito watches, the Godfather refuses... so Mom grabs a knife and holds it to the Godfather's neck... little suspense there. Mom is pulled away, and Vito gets to watch her blown away by a shotgun... Right after she tells him to run. Vito runs and hides in the village, but the Godfather sends men to search for him... and puts a price on his head. Now Vito must hide, and many people will double cross him if they see him. Vito is smuggled out of the village at night - lots of suspense because they are actively searching for him. Vito gets on a ship for America - and we get that obscured shot of the Statue of Liberty that makes me cry every time I see it. Then Vito is on Ellis island, where they give him a new name and quarentine him for small pox. He is a little boy, alone in a strange land. Orphaned. That's the first ten minutes. Guess what? Many more people will get whacked before the film is over. There are shoot outs and explosions and all kinds of exciting things. Genre things. It's a friggin' action packed gangster movie.

      Yet, when people look back on those films, they forget the genre stuff. That genre stuff is what brought in the audience, so that we could get the King Lear family drama stuff that writers tend to remember.

      If you want to write movies, you've got to write movies.

      - Bill
      I agree. There were too many pseudo artsy movies out there.

      And even those movies like Fellinis "8 1/2" were produced for making money. And they did. For a small, sophisticated audience. They were quite cheap to produce. Just look at all those Janus film productions. Try to guess what their budget might have been.

      I also agree that, at the movies, I want to see genre stuff.

      When in the future, I want to see space ships, robots, people asphyxiating or exploding in the vacuum, I want crazy board computers and aliens and lots of images of outer space, moon surfaces...

      I really don't care to watch all that fake sensitivity that popped up everywhere in the last years, all those guilt laden gangsters who want to become better people.

      A gangster movie: show me some really nasty people, and some really tough ones to fight them. Show me the ugliest stuff. This hasn't changed since the days of Greek drama, we just forgot a bit about it.

      Tough times are can be used in two ways: for whining, or for rethinking one's ways.
      "Ecco il grande Zampano!"

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: The State of the Business

        Originally posted by Anagram View Post
        How would a writer who wanted to write a video game even go about it? What format would he use? What would he need to have ready?
        Unfortunately, Naudikom is exactly correct. For you to approach a game developer with a fleshed out concept for a video game would be equivalent to you as a screenwriter approaching a production company and saying "I have an idea for a movie." Ideas in video games are as cheap as ideas for movies and as such they are developed entirely in house. If you want to design a game, you will just have to start your own business.

        Now, if you are an established film writer in Hollywood- you may be able to get developers to listen to you. Leverage is as important in Silicon Valley as it is in Hollywood. Thinking this is all sounding reminiscent of trying to break into script writing? It is. Except it's probably even harder.

        Regardless of all that, if you are still interested in hearing the technicalities behind fleshing out a video game concept, I won't get into details cause I don't want to derail the thread any further, but if you are very interested, feel free to PM me.
        http://thekillbox.wordpress.com/

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: The State of the Business

          Originally posted by Taotropics View Post
          The place where the wooing is happening now is in the halls of places like Mattel, Hasbro, Lego, and Electronic Arts. Studio heads wine, dine and throw amazing amounts of money at these partners now the way they used to do for stars. And it will stay this way for a good long while, until the toy and game content creators become as overstuffed, megalomaniacal and greedy as the stars did, and the numbers don't make sense anymore.
          Very sobering. I didn't read through every line of every reply to your thread, so forgive me if this was addressed already. But to fully understand the trend toward classic toy and electronic games, there must be something more at play than power brokers feeling that these high profile brands are more likely to get a better return on investment. I'd like to know folks' take on WHY toy and game brands are more popular right now than other brands, i.e. celebrity, topical, high concept, etc?

          Is the trend solely economically driven? Demographics? Societal, or all of the above? In times of upheaval, uncertainty and economic shift, are moviegoers waxing nostalgic, longing for remembrance of simpler, more stable times (that's where I'm putting my money)? Obviously the recession has led to a retraction in nearly every industry, but the interesting question is why some sectors are thriving while many others wither away? My take as a moviegoer: The key isn't so much the toy or game brands (which are indeed popular), but rather a desire for WELL DONE films based on familiar brands and themes, including sci-fi (Twilight Zone), thriller (Batman), dogs (pick one), etc. Who needs to pay $10 for "ripped from the headlines" thrillers and dramas to make us anxious, when we need only to flick on CNN to get the bejeebers scared out of us.

          If you're starving, are you gonna go for the trendy steamed seaweed and squid or the bacon double cheeseburger, milkshake and fries?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: The State of the Business

            Originally posted by Tony R View Post
            That's the question, Tao. You've always encouraged aspiring scribes to write the script they would write if no one were looking. And later this year, I plan to do just that. So if I'm going to give everything I have to this script...
            blah blah blah

            Well, I want to know that I'm not wasting my time.

            So with this in mind, what would you suggest I do? What would you suggest any of us do?
            Hi tonY.

            My post has nothing to do w/ Tao. Everything to do w/ Tone.

            With all due respect---I would suggest you splash some cold water on your face and grow a back-bone... then make an executive decision.

            This is YOUR career. Quit asking Oz or The Oracle on which lane to drive in. Sheesh! Again... with all due respect.
            Doth thou desirest a slapping? - William Shakespeare

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: The State of the Business

              I was just hoping to get him to post a follow up with my question in mind. I've always valued his opinions.
              Ralphy's Fvcking Blog

              "
              Ever notice how 'monogamy' rhymes with 'monotony'?" -- Christian Troy

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: The State of the Business

                Thanks for the sobering insight.

                I am simultaneously a total n00b (haven't sold anything, haven't gotten an assignment) and in a place I would have killed to be in a few years ago: I have an agent at a big-three agency, a manager, I have had meetings literally all over town this year. I am young. I am pretty good in a room. I'm a girl who writes in a genre dominated by men. Theoretically, I have (some) stuff going for me.

                I know exactly how lucky I am to be even where I am today. I know that I, to be honest, basically beat the odds to get even here. (Which is, depressingly, not very far.)

                And yet, it is only now that I can see how very, very tough it's going to be to make it to the next level, the level where someone takes a chance on me and pays me WGA minimum to write something: probably a rewrite, or an adaptation of a book or a graphic novel. Not anything original. The odds of me selling something original are astronomical. I have one spec that is purely a sample, one spec that went out and didn't sell, and another one that will go out in the fall. At this point, I regard specs purely as marketing tools. They serve only to get me in rooms with new people. Would it be great if my fall spec sold? Of course. I wouldn't mind having functional A/C in my car. But the odds are so low as to be ludicrous. People are just not buying specs right now.

                I have had at least a handful of meetings very recently where the exec said some version of the following: "It's killing me to get something set up here. The studio has a list of five guys they like and that's it. They'd rather pay [Fancy Writer] a million bucks for a polish than give it to someone new who I know can do it for cheap."

                This is kind of sobering, to put it mildly. All I have going for me as a writer is that I'm good and new and cheap. That's it. I can't point to a franchise movie I wrote and go "See? I made that. It made money. Now give me my next job." So from a studio's perspective, even at 87k or whatever WGA min. is right now, I am an unproven quantity and a lousy risk. And studios are not taking risks right now. There's a document that goes around periodically, of everything that's in development at all the studios. A friend of mine was reading it and pointed out to me that about 90% of the (horrifyingly few) projects are being written by literally the same 10 guys. So you're either on that list or you're not working. And when experienced writers who just aren't among the 10 guys can't get a job, why the hell should someone hire me? And of course, it's not just me. There are probably a hundred new writers at my level and we're all competing for the same very, very few slots.

                How do you get over that particular hump? I have no idea. (Please weigh in if you have the foolproof answer.) But here's something I have noticed: when I first started taking meetings, I was kind of picky about what I'd pitch on. If something was out of my wheelhouse, I'd bow out. Pitching, after all, is a drag. You have to go away and do a ton of work for free and then go in and be Don Draper to a bunch of executives who probably still won't give you the job. And it isn't even your idea, and you probably don't like it much to begin with. You worry about storytelling integrity, and stuff like "am I interested in this story?" You think about how you could be spending the time writing on your own projects.

                But now that I am where I am, and I can see just how lousy the odds are that I will be one of the few people to jump over the giant fence in front of me and graduate to Paid, Studio-Endorsed Writer Who Might Actually Be Able To Make A Living At this, the fear of God has been put into me. So now, if an exec gives me a piece of material in a meeting, I will try my utmost to pitch on it. I basically write action movies, which means that I get material ranging from horror to family 4-quadrant stuff to thrillers. At first I couldn't figure this out. How was I, with my expertise in writing about explosions, supposed to do anything with a Korean horror remake? When horror is a genre I dislike and know nothing about? So now I'm more like - crappy manuscript about ghosts - bring it on. Korean horror remake - I'm on it. 4-quad YA adaptation - let me tell you about this great idea I just had about talking dogs. Big-deal exec wants me to go around town pitching something with him for free - no problem, my schedule is totally open. I had a meeting on a project based on figurines a couple of days ago. Even a few months ago I would have thought this was an insane idea. Now I would totally go for it. Unfortunately, the studio gave them a list of writers they could choose from for a pitch. Amazingly enough, I wasn't on it.

                All of that just to say that this is no longer about personal artistic satisfaction for me. I kind of still think it should be - I often think that people write better, more interesting, more entertaining stuff when they're good writers writing something they feel passionate about. But that's just not what's going on in the business right now. And I would like to feed my dogs, so while I'm still writing original stuff that I like, I'm mostly focusing on somehow turning myself into a person who's likely to get a shot at polishing the nineteenth Transformers.

                But here's the reality check: I am only able to do this - do what at this point is a full-time job for free - because my husband is carrying us financially right now. (I literally do not know what people in my situation do if they don't have a ton of savings or a supportive partner. For several years, I worked full-time and wrote. But when things started to happen, it became simply impossible to have a day job.) So we're gambling that my crazy screenwriting thing is going to pay off for us. But come this fall, if my spec goes out and doesn't sell, and I haven't gotten an assignment, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

                I don't say that to be Bobby Bringdown, but because this is stuff I'm facing myself. I hope that things will turn around and people will start buying specs and original pitches again. But if it doesn't, and my only shot remains somehow getting on the List Of Guys Who Get Studio Jobs... man. Daunting. I'll give it my best darn shot. But that may not be enough.

                Like I said, sobering.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: The State of the Business

                  Originally posted by corduroy View Post
                  Thanks for the sobering insight.

                  I am simultaneously a total n00b (haven't sold anything, haven't gotten an assignment) and in a place I would have killed to be in a few years ago: I have an agent at a big-three agency, a manager, I have had meetings literally all over town this year. I am young. I am pretty good in a room. I'm a girl who writes in a genre dominated by men. Theoretically, I have (some) stuff going for me.

                  I know exactly how lucky I am to be even where I am today. I know that I, to be honest, basically beat the odds to get even here. (Which is, depressingly, not very far.)

                  And yet, it is only now that I can see how very, very tough it's going to be to make it to the next level, the level where someone takes a chance on me and pays me WGA minimum to write something: probably a rewrite, or an adaptation of a book or a graphic novel. Not anything original. The odds of me selling something original are astronomical. I have one spec that is purely a sample, one spec that went out and didn't sell, and another one that will go out in the fall. At this point, I regard specs purely as marketing tools. They serve only to get me in rooms with new people. Would it be great if my fall spec sold? Of course. I wouldn't mind having functional A/C in my car. But the odds are so low as to be ludicrous. People are just not buying specs right now.

                  I have had at least a handful of meetings very recently where the exec said some version of the following: "It's killing me to get something set up here. The studio has a list of five guys they like and that's it. They'd rather pay [Fancy Writer] a million bucks for a polish than give it to someone new who I know can do it for cheap."

                  This is kind of sobering, to put it mildly. All I have going for me as a writer is that I'm good and new and cheap. That's it. I can't point to a franchise movie I wrote and go "See? I made that. It made money. Now give me my next job." So from a studio's perspective, even at 87k or whatever WGA min. is right now, I am an unproven quantity and a lousy risk. And studios are not taking risks right now. There's a document that goes around periodically, of everything that's in development at all the studios. A friend of mine was reading it and pointed out to me that about 90% of the (horrifyingly few) projects are being written by literally the same 10 guys. So you're either on that list or you're not working. And when experienced writers who just aren't among the 10 guys can't get a job, why the hell should someone hire me? And of course, it's not just me. There are probably a hundred new writers at my level and we're all competing for the same very, very few slots.

                  How do you get over that particular hump? I have no idea. (Please weigh in if you have the foolproof answer.) But here's something I have noticed: when I first started taking meetings, I was kind of picky about what I'd pitch on. If something was out of my wheelhouse, I'd bow out. Pitching, after all, is a drag. You have to go away and do a ton of work for free and then go in and be Don Draper to a bunch of executives who probably still won't give you the job. And it isn't even your idea, and you probably don't like it much to begin with. You worry about storytelling integrity, and stuff like "am I interested in this story?" You think about how you could be spending the time writing on your own projects.

                  But now that I am where I am, and I can see just how lousy the odds are that I will be one of the few people to jump over the giant fence in front of me and graduate to Paid, Studio-Endorsed Writer Who Might Actually Be Able To Make A Living At this, the fear of God has been put into me. So now, if an exec gives me a piece of material in a meeting, I will try my utmost to pitch on it. I basically write action movies, which means that I get material ranging from horror to family 4-quadrant stuff to thrillers. At first I couldn't figure this out. How was I, with my expertise in writing about explosions, supposed to do anything with a Korean horror remake? When horror is a genre I dislike and know nothing about? So now I'm more like - crappy manuscript about ghosts - bring it on. Korean horror remake - I'm on it. 4-quad YA adaptation - let me tell you about this great idea I just had about talking dogs. Big-deal exec wants me to go around town pitching something with him for free - no problem, my schedule is totally open. I had a meeting on a project based on figurines a couple of days ago. Even a few months ago I would have thought this was an insane idea. Now I would totally go for it. Unfortunately, the studio gave them a list of writers they could choose from for a pitch. Amazingly enough, I wasn't on it.

                  All of that just to say that this is no longer about personal artistic satisfaction for me. I kind of still think it should be - I often think that people write better, more interesting, more entertaining stuff when they're good writers writing something they feel passionate about. But that's just not what's going on in the business right now. And I would like to feed my dogs, so while I'm still writing original stuff that I like, I'm mostly focusing on somehow turning myself into a person who's likely to get a shot at polishing the nineteenth Transformers.

                  But here's the reality check: I am only able to do this - do what at this point is a full-time job for free - because my husband is carrying us financially right now. (I literally do not know what people in my situation do if they don't have a ton of savings or a supportive partner. For several years, I worked full-time and wrote. But when things started to happen, it became simply impossible to have a day job.) So we're gambling that my crazy screenwriting thing is going to pay off for us. But come this fall, if my spec goes out and doesn't sell, and I haven't gotten an assignment, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

                  I don't say that to be Bobby Bringdown, but because this is stuff I'm facing myself. I hope that things will turn around and people will start buying specs and original pitches again. But if it doesn't, and my only shot remains somehow getting on the List Of Guys Who Get Studio Jobs... man. Daunting. I'll give it my best darn shot. But that may not be enough.

                  Like I said, sobering.
                  Fantastic post.

                  I'm in the same boat as you for the most part. At a similar career level, partially supported by loved ones, and living with great anxiety about what I'm going to do if my brother (co-writer) and I don't get over the hump.

                  I wish you luck.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: The State of the Business

                    Originally posted by Charisma View Post
                    Hi tonY.

                    My post has nothing to do w/ Tao. Everything to do w/ Tone.

                    With all due respect---I would suggest you splash some cold water on your face and grow a back-bone... then make an executive decision.

                    This is YOUR career. Quit asking Oz or The Oracle on which lane to drive in. Sheesh! Again... with all due respect.
                    Every working screenwriter will gladly tell you about the mentors that helped shape the way they write and conduct themselves as far as the economics of Hollywood are concerned.

                    Tao is something of a mentor to a lot of us here. To eviscerate someone for asking him a question that's totally in tune with the discussion at hand is unnecessary, and not at all constructive.

                    I hope the posturing made you feel better.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: The State of the Business

                      So I take it now is the time to be writing family pictures then?

                      EJ

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: The State of the Business

                        Saving all the useful posts before the inevitable locking and deleting of the thread.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: The State of the Business

                          Hope that doesn't happen.

                          I want to see the 2nd half of that original post.
                          Sent from my iPhone. Because I'm better than you.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: The State of the Business

                            Great post corduroy.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: The State of the Business

                              What was I going to say?

                              Oh yea, there's nothing evil about entertaining families. They deserve it.

                              They need it. Big market. Families in need of entertainment.

                              So?

                              I've got a good title for one:

                              The Whopperburgers.

                              Only that's all I've got for it.

                              Either that, or George Washingmachine.

                              Or, Tony Tomorrow.

                              Oh yea, starring Nic Cage and Samuel L. Johnson.

                              pff,

                              What's it about, uhm... no, then it'd have to be animation.

                              Urg.

                              Uhm....

                              No, that'd be animation too.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: The State of the Business

                                Corduroy wrote:

                                The studio has a list of five guys they like and that's it. They'd rather pay [Fancy Writer] a million bucks for a polish than give it to someone new who I know can do it for cheap."

                                This is kind of sobering, to put it mildly. All I have going for me as a writer is that I'm good and new and cheap. That's it. I can't point to a franchise movie I wrote and go "See? I made that. It made money. Now give me my next job."
                                --------------------------------------------------------------
                                Corduroy,

                                Everything in your post is dead-on correct and understandably maddeningly frustrating to you. You’ve correctly assessed the seemingly limited and mostly Catch-22 options with regard to proving yourself to the studios. And expanding to pitching, writing, and generating ideas for, any genre whatsoever is something you absolutely must do to be in the studios’ environment as you’ve accurately portrayed it.

                                While you’re doing all that though, don’t overlook an additional route to proving yourself to the industry and possibly generating a great deal of work offers and a solid career: find the time to also write a few passionately felt specs that might be marketed to, and attract the attention of, mini-majors and indy producers who have deals with them.

                                Your agent will know who the players are in this arena and what they’re looking for, and therefore which ideal execs to send such additional work products of yours to.

                                Many of their productions are the ones that while doing only modest box office, become multi-awarded at Oscar time, and the writers of those “smaller stories” (that studios won’t risk) achieve wide industry recognition and plenty of subsequent work offers.

                                Like everything else you’re presently doing, this supplemental option risks a bit of your time, but it’s well worth adding to your approach and to your arsenal of tools that may further your career.

                                Ernie

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