Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

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  • #31
    Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

    I'm not 100% sure if it's double dipping. For example, my brother's company purchased the screenrights (TV and film) to two childrens' books. The author still controls the print rights to the novel.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #32
      Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

      Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
      You're confusing me with this "novella" thing you're hooked on.

      If the writer doesn't own the work, i.e. he/she sold it to someone, then, yes, the current copyright owner would get the money. But that means the writer was already paid for the work. If the writer got screwed, or didn't make enough money, then he/she needs a better lawyer. (Yes, if further down the road, I make the statement where I got screwed, please feel free to throw this back in my face.)

      A writer cannot "double-dip". If I sell my "novella" to a publisher, I can't turn around and write a novel with that same subject matter/plot/characters because the publisher owns those rights. I might be able to sell my screenplay to a studio, and turn around and make the story a novel, but that's dicey, at best, since that'd probably be covered under whatever contract one signs when selling the screenplay.

      As far as the idea about some .pdf db, I don't see why that couldn't be included as part of the contract when one sells or options the screenplay. Maybe something along the lines of allowing .pdf, .doc, (or whatever form the screenplay takes on the db) monies generated to be split among the current copyright holder (the studio, production company, whatever), and the original writer.

      I don't see it as a big business, but it may be a first step in bringing current business practices into the 21st century.

      A novelist's rights are indeed "sold" (though not in the strictest sense, as the copyright remains in the possession of the writer) to the publisher as long as the book is in print. Once the publisher sends a letter to the author stating the book is about to go out of print--often as soon as eight months after initial publication--and hence into the world of remainders, the author can purchase copies at a heavily-discounted price, and at that point a letter is issued reverting all rights back to the author. Then you own the work once again.

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      • #33
        Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

        Originally posted by sc111 View Post
        I'm not 100% sure if it's double dipping. For example, my brother's company purchased the screenrights (TV and film) to two childrens' books. The author still controls the print rights to the novel.
        Please tell me your brother has "hired you" to write the screenplays. If not, no Christmas presents for him this year.
        Never let the competition know what you're thinking... and never tell the unseen masses your story idea.

        -- Rule 85, Ferengi Rules of Acquisition (updated by cmmora)

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        • #34
          Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

          Originally posted by cmmora View Post
          Please tell me your brother has "hired you" to write the screenplays. If not, no Christmas presents for him this year.

          Umm... that's a very long story. But yeah he put me on the list.
          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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          • #35
            Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

            Originally posted by Jake Schuster View Post
            A novelist's rights are indeed "sold" (though not in the strictest sense, as the copyright remains in the possession of the writer) to the publisher as long as the book is in print. Once the publisher sends a letter to the author stating the book is about to go out of print--often as soon as eight months after initial publication--and hence into the world of remainders, the author can purchase copies at a heavily-discounted price, and at that point a letter is issued reverting all rights back to the author. Then you own the work once again.
            Yeah. Or, you can have a contract like Harlan Ellison has where all rights revert back to the author at no cost to the author.

            Which probably explains why he's got so few books in print.

            The point being that "double dipping" is my own half-assed legal term. I can write the "novella" (which publishers don't want, by the way) and still retain copyright for that "novella" even if someone bought film rights.

            But we're talking about screenplays, and I don't think a different format, i.e. the novella, for what amounts to the same work, would fly. You could try it. That's what the courts are for.

            But I like my iTunes idea better.

            HH

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            • #36
              Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

              What a great idea.

              I think writers should self-publish their "novellas". Absolutely. Then sell the download for .99$.

              Why, you may sell a hundred downloads. That 99$. (it's only few hundred bucks to make it official, setting up a pub co, getting an ISBN number etc.)

              I mean, of course execs are going to rush and pay .99 to read your script. So will all those bloggers that contribute to make a script hot, all those tracking boards, and aspiring writers. Forget free script from established writers they can download from Drew, if it's for sale, it must be good.

              Of course if you have a high concept, or a great set up, or cool characters, or cool jokes, some buyers may get their "subconcious influenced", and end up using those elements in their own script. For you to discover only when their movie is in theaters. But that's really nothing. You'd be a published author!

              And yes, you'd be twisting the studio's arm and make them pay through the nose when they'll come and beg to option your work. Now that IS ingenuous.

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              • #37
                Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                I do think the script is an art form to be appreciated for its own sake. No doubt about it, the script is a blueprint for a movie and it can be enjoyed in its natural state by anyone who can read.

                Unlike a traditional blueprint for a house, the only person who is going to check those building blueprints out are the construction people. However many, many, many people can and do read and can enjoy a script, just as a person can enjoy the written version of a stage play, novella, ebook, blog, fiction, and non fiction.

                Some people are readers. I love to read. And I read a variety of literary material. Today with the availability to read PDFs on PDAs and smartphones and kindles, etc, there could truly be a market for an itunes for scripts. I would be willing to pay a small fee to download the script and read it, especially if that money went directly to the writer.

                My understanding of copyright is that you can sell or keep a variety of rights. So you can sell the film rights, ebook rights, novel rights, etc. In essence I believe this is what is done for novels, the writer keeps the novel rights and sells the film rights. It would be nice in the future if writers got to keep the ebook right of any script they sell.

                Personally, it scares me when someone says a script is ONLY a blueprint - what a way to devalue the hours and anguish required to write a script. A script is more than a blueprint, its an artform, its the reason I enjoy reading a well written script.

                Its a different exeperience to create the story in your mind versus watching in on screen. Its the reason people read the book and then go see the movie or vice versa. Twilight the movie has been so successful because of the many people who enjoyed reading the books. And how many people have read the books now that they have seen the movie.
                826dk

                ARTicles: Kick Your Creative A** Into Gear

                DK - Script Revolution

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                • #38
                  Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                  Originally posted by trujosh View Post
                  What a great idea.

                  I think writers should self-publish their "novellas". Absolutely. Then sell the download for .99$.

                  Why, you may sell a hundred downloads. That 99$. (it's only few hundred bucks to make it official, setting up a pub co, getting an ISBN number etc.)

                  I mean, of course execs are going to rush and pay .99 to read your script. So will all those bloggers that contribute to make a script hot, all those tracking boards, and aspiring writers. Forget free script from established writers they can download from Drew, if it's for sale, it must be good.

                  Of course if you have a high concept, or a great set up, or cool characters, or cool jokes, some buyers may get their "subconcious influenced", and end up using those elements in their own script. For you to discover only when their movie is in theaters. But that's really nothing. You'd be a published author!

                  And yes, you'd be twisting the studio's arm and make them pay through the nose when they'll come and beg to option your work. Now that IS ingenuous.
                  Are you being sarcastic, you scamp, you? Or did you just lose your way from the AICN talkback section?

                  Just for clarification: I didn't mean to imply that execs, or anyone else who is someone in the industry, would pay to download screenplays. However, there is obviously a demand for screenplays from wannabes, and/or anyone interested in reading them. Hence, the idea.

                  I have no idea whether it would work or not, but I do know that it could be done if someone wanted to do it, and we wouldn't be having 80+ pages of conversation on whether the writer is getting screwed or not. Which we all know he or she is anyway.

                  For it to even have a chance at working, it'd have to be done on a site such as this.

                  I also said no one's going to get rich off it, but it would be a way to ensure the writer gets something for the read, what with the status quo being illegal and all.

                  HH

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                  • #39
                    Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                    A personal observation:

                    My world is business and it's amazing to me that writers, being the independent, imaginative people that they are, get so flustered when the status quo is questioned--especially a status quo that hurts a writer's income. Fascinating.

                    Just because "it's done this way" doesn't mean it's the ONLY way. The purpose of this thread is to explore how to decrease the vulnerability of a writer in determining where their work can be published and what additional compensation can come from publishing a screenplay. Looking for solutions to the Scriptgate saga.

                    The double-copyright idea is only one thought. There should be many more--or at least I was hoping to see new ideas to battle this problem. I guess it won't happen. Hopefully, I'm wrong and clearer heads will prevail.

                    Anyway, back on topic:

                    A hypothetical scenario...

                    Instead of burning Carson at the stake, writers approach Carson and negotiate a deal whereby the copyrighted "novella" format is agreed to be the format linked to his site. Carson, thanks to JA & Co., is popular enough to collect advertising revenues from his sight and agrees to pay the writer from the ad revenues based on the number of downloads.

                    Another hypothetical scenario...

                    Writers create their own site, whereby fees are charged per download of these copyrighted novellas...

                    As far as the concern over the studios' reaction...if the studios hand out copies of their copyrighted material to bloggers, I don't see why a writer can't do the same. Lock down works both ways.

                    Opening one's mind to new ideas is a good thing. Otherwise, the world would still be flat.
                    Brown-Balled by the Hollywood Clika

                    Latino Heart Project's MEXICAN HEART...ATTACK!

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                    • #40
                      Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                      Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
                      Yeah. Or, you can have a contract like Harlan Ellison has where all rights revert back to the author at no cost to the author.
                      HH
                      But it costs the author nothing to have rights reverted back to him. In fact, it's the natural next step when a book goes out of print, the idea being that eventually another imprint will bring the writer's backlist out in paper. And it gives us, the authors, control over our own material.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                        Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
                        Are you being sarcastic, you scamp, you? Or did you just lose your way from the AICN talkback section?
                        No need to use insults. I managed to convey sarcasm without calling names, so should you.

                        When you say "there is obviously a demand for screenplays from wannabes, and/or anyone interested in reading them. Hence, the idea." you DO imply that "execs, or anyone else who is someone in the industry, would pay to download screenplays."

                        Listen, sarcasm apart, my opinion is that having people paying for downloads would only put a clamp to a screenplay before it's out the door. That's all.

                        But go ahead and try.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                          I'm not sure I've ever signed a contract that didn't give me publication rights to the script. I don't know if those rights extended digitally, but considering my lawyer is a fvcking ninja, I'd be surprised if they didn't.

                          At a poker game a couple years ago, the topic of published screenplays came up. As I recall, five of the attendees had each had more than a few scripts published. One of the writers at the table had sold a few thousand copies of his Oscar-winning script. The others? Barely any.

                          The problem isn't that writers don't retain rights to publish the material: the problem is that studios don't want story details leaking before the movies come out. This is one reason why reviews are embargoed. This is one reason why studios are so careful about test screenings. This is one reason why studios don't like scriptshadow. It's less a matter of legality and more a matter of studio concern. They're the ones who put a hundred million dollars into a movie; they get to dictate what happens with the script. Whether or not script discussion and trading is legal, it's something the studios want to curtail. Copyrighting a 'novella' version won't solve that. Selling a copy of the script, digitally or otherwise, simply won't be allowed by the studios before the movie comes out. This isn't a matter of not questioning the status quo: it's a matter of the studios making an intelligent business decision. Scripts are proprietary documents that studios use to create products worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Before that product is released and its cost begins to be recouped, of course the studios will try to keep information under wraps.

                          Once the movie is out, it becomes much less of a big deal. I'd be curious if there's ever been a case of a studio sending a take-down notice on a script to a movie that had already come out. I'd doubt it.

                          All of this conversation about selling scripts for a dollar presupposes that someone would actually want to buy it. I think everyone here is vastly over-representing the consumer market for scripts, filtered through the lens of DD. And as someone who's read thousands and thousands of them, I can safely say that only a couple dozen of those would've been worth paying for. The rest? Sh1t.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                            Originally posted by jcgary View Post
                            The problem isn't that writers don't retain rights to publish the material: the problem is that studios don't want story details leaking before the movies come out. This is one reason why reviews are embargoed. This is one reason why studios are so careful about test screenings. This is one reason why studios don't like scriptshadow. It's less a matter of legality and more a matter of studio concern. They're the ones who put a hundred million dollars into a movie; they get to dictate what happens with the script. Whether or not script discussion and trading is legal, it's something the studios want to curtail.
                            Sounds reasonable. But trading does go on, and I find nothing wrong with some who want to see if there are viable alternatives to the status quo.


                            Originally posted by jcgary View Post
                            All of this conversation about selling scripts for a dollar presupposes that someone would actually want to buy it. I think everyone here is vastly over-representing the consumer market for scripts, filtered through the lens of DD.
                            I don't think anyone is ignorant of the reality of actual earnings potential, but someone somewhere does want to download/trade scripts. So if you really want to learn how to write a script, and you really want to see what the latest version of Death Wish 8 is, then, yeah, maybe you should pony up that buck for the education/enjoyment.

                            HH

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                            • #44
                              Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                              Originally posted by umo View Post
                              Why would a writer want the rights to publish the screenplay AFTER the movie is produced? The price would be subject to the amount the seller determines. Besides, what would be the purpose?

                              The scripts everyone is so hungry to read haven't been made into movies yet.

                              I don't think either of us are copyright experts. It's a concept discussion at this point.

                              Yes, the studios may not be happy with the writer double copyright-ing their work. But the intent here is not to make the studios happy; it's to make the writer happy, correct?

                              Bottom line...

                              If writers double-copyright their work there should be an opportunity to
                              to cement ownership of the author and provide opportunites for additional income by publishing and/or better negotiating with buyers because of the underlying literary work.
                              Interesting screenplays are often published after a movie is produced - just check Borders or Amazon. You can buy them as books individually or in compilations. The purpose is that people interested in film and media buy this stuff. Screenwriters often retain the rights to publish these.

                              The scripts that "everyone is so hungry to read" really only matter to writers or industry people associated with writers, a different category. These are also the one's we're discussing how to protect.

                              As far as double copyrighting goes, it's not about whether or not the studios are happy, it's about whether or not it's a breach of contract, which it is. You say it's a concept discussion at this point, but you can't disregard how copyright and contract law works in practice. 'Expert' might be too strong a word but I've been directly involved in many contract and copyright deals and have a good practical understanding of these things. I'm not making this stuff up as I go.

                              In reality, a writer can not 'double copyright' a work to "cement ownership" to gain additional income. You either own certain rights in a work or you don't, and there are different rights available in a single work. The literary rights in a work - in this case a screenplay - are already a part of screenplay contracts, it's not some new concept that helps solve the issue at hand. And even if you retain the literary rights at the time you sell your screenplay, which is what normally happens, you can not exploit those rights unless you have a literary work to copyright and publish. Whether you write the literary work before or after or during the screenplay is entirely up to the writer, but the literary work can not be a duplicate of the screenplay with different formatting.

                              For an "underlying literary work" to strengthen a writer's negotiations in the sale of a screen adaptation, the literary work must already be published and successful, which defeats your concept of copyrighting it the day before you release or sell the screenplay.

                              I see what you're getting at but it simply doesn't work that way and that's not how contracts and copyright law work in practice. I agree that the bottom line is to make the writer happy, or better still, make the writer rich and successful, but ad hoc manipulation of copyright law isn't the answer.
                              "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

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                              • #45
                                Re: Interim Solution to Protecting Author's Rights

                                Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
                                I don't think anyone is ignorant of the reality of actual earnings potential, but someone somewhere does want to download/trade scripts. So if you really want to learn how to write a script, and you really want to see what the latest version of Death Wish 8 is, then, yeah, maybe you should pony up that buck for the education/enjoyment.
                                Or maybe you shouldn't. What you're advocating is not in the interest of writers because it undermines the value and integrity of the business deal being made between the writer and the studio.

                                One of the astounding assumptions being made in this discussion is that it's somehow imperative to the career of aspiring writers to see copies of screenplays which are currently in the process of negotiation, sale, or development. This is nonsense. There is no shortage of quality spec, draft, completed and produced screenplays out there to learn from.
                                "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

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