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  • #91
    Re: Nicholl 2013...

    Greg,

    I figured since Nicholl is a strong competition, that a script was really scrutinized in the way that you claim. And since it is pretty easy to see who 'has' it when you put them right next to who 'doesn't'.

    If you remember there was a post on this thread, where one year someone made the finals and then the next year didn't make the first cut.

    Doesn't that seem hard to do? But I guess you can't just keep recycling a decent script. I'm sure the judges would like to see something new in a years time.

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Nicholl 2013...

      Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
      Greg,

      I figured since Nicholl is a strong competition, that a script was really scrutinized in the way that you claim. And since it is pretty easy to see who 'has' it when you put them right next to who 'doesn't'.

      If you remember there was a post on this thread, where one year someone made the finals and then the next year didn't make the first cut.

      Doesn't that seem hard to do? But I guess you can't just keep recycling a decent script. I'm sure the judges would like to see something new in a years time.
      Let me describe the judging process:

      First round - all scripts are read twice. About 10-12% of the highest scoring scripts are read a third time. Best two of three scores determines the scripts that advance to:

      Quarterfinal round - all scripts are read three times. Best five of six scores determines the scripts that advance to:

      Semifinal round - all scripts are read four times by volunteer Academy members including producers, directors, writers, executives, actors, agents, etc. Best eight of ten scores, including at least three semifinal scores, determines the scripts that advance to:

      Final round - the Academy Nicholl Committee, consisting currently of 14 members, reads the finalist scripts, meets to discuss the screenplays and then selects the up to five fellowship recipients.

      How can a script reach the finals one year and not advance in the next?

      The competition is highly competitive and the margin between advancing and not advancing from the first round is slight. For instance, last year a combined score of 163 (e.g., 82/81) advanced a script to the quarterfinal round. If a script only had a combined score of 162 (e.g., 81/81), it would not advance.

      Plus the reading enterprise is highly subjective and readers often disagree about the quality of a script. Easy to be loved by one reader and disliked by the next.

      BTW, scripts are not assigned to readers/judges who have read them (or the writer) in a prior year.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Nicholl 2013...

        Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
        It's too bad you've been consistenly misinformed about what genres perform well in the Academy Nicholl competition.

        As I've posted here multiple times and as we've posted on the Academy Nicholl Facebook page, scripts advance to the quarterfinals per genre in about the same ratio as the number of scripts entered in that genre.

        In other words, if about 5% of the entries are horror scripts, about 5% of the quarterfinalists will be horror. If 12% of the entries are thrillers, about 12% of the quarterfinalists will be thrillers.

        The reason dramas seem to do well is because about 33% of the entries are dramas. And about 33% of the quarterfinalists are dramas.

        The percentages of entries and quarterfinalists remain close across all but one genre year after year.

        The one exception - Comedy - which seems to underperform slightly. For instance, last year about 20% of the entries were comedies and only about 18.5% of the quarterfinalists were comedies.
        A few months ago, I took the genre numbers that Greg is referring to (might have been posted on the Nicholl Facebook page) and compiled it all in a nice snapshot-like table, which might help further illustrate the point that Greg is making. Actually, it was in this same thread. If Greg has no objections . . .

        Nicholl Stats - genre breakdown
        http://www.mraymond.com/screenwriting/nichollstats.pdf

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Nicholl 2013...

          Greg,
          Is there an option this year where if a script makes semis, and the logline and contact info goes out to industry folk, can someone choose whether that log/info goes to either a rep or exec or both?

          EJ

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Nicholl 2013...

            Originally posted by EJ Pennypacker View Post
            Greg,
            Is there an option this year where if a script makes semis, and the logline and contact info goes out to industry folk, can someone choose whether that log/info goes to either a rep or exec or both?

            EJ
            We haven't made any final decisions about contact lists but we plan on giving writers the choice to include their log lines.

            Don't know that we would create separate lists for reps and producers. What do we do about managers who also produce?

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Nicholl 2013...

              Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
              The competition is highly competitive and the margin between advancing and not advancing from the first round is slight. For instance, last year a combined score of 163 (e.g., 82/81) advanced a script to the quarterfinal round. If a script only had a combined score of 162 (e.g., 81/81), it would not advance.
              I really really really hated reading that.

              Cue Al Pacino and his "inches" speech:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzK8r4c6Xc

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Nicholl 2013...

                Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
                We haven't made any final decisions about contact lists but we plan on giving writers the choice to include their log lines.

                Don't know that we would create separate lists for reps and producers. What do we do about managers who also produce?
                Well my point is what if an entrant already has a rep, but wants to hear from producers? Or what if the situation is flipped? If a manager produces I say they fall under producers for sure.

                EJ

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Nicholl 2013...

                  Originally posted by EJ Pennypacker View Post
                  Well my point is what if an entrant already has a rep, but wants to hear from producers? Or what if the situation is flipped? If a manager produces I say they fall under producers for sure.

                  EJ
                  What you really want are targeted lists going to particular industry types based on the particular situation of the individual writer. We won't be doing that.

                  What we will try to do is to remind agents, executives, managers and producers (and their assistants) what it means to reach the Academy Nicholl quarterfinals, semifinals and finals.

                  In other words, that quarterfinalists have at least two scores averaging 81.5 (based on 2012 scores) from experienced readers, that semifinalists have at least five scores averaging 82, that the top 30 have at least eight scores averaging 85, that the finalists have at least eight scores averaging 87.

                  Just a guess but I would think that reps and producers would be more interested in scripts vetted by two or five or eight readers and judges than those vetted by one.

                  Finally, ignoring the Academy Nicholl lists, I'm fairly confident that semifinalists who actively target well selected reps or producers or executives are going to have a reasonably good success rate of getting their scripts into those offices. Why worry about lists when your Nicholl success can already open doors?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Nicholl 2013...

                    No doubt there's always people who 'just miss' in tournament like settings. But of those 7k or so scripts, how many would you say(I know it would be a total educated guess) really have no shot and not because of genre. But because people tend to over rate themselves as a writer.

                    Looking back, I know the first two times I entered Nichol, I had no shot and didn't know it. Loose structure. Long winded dialogue. There's got to be about 75% of that field can probably be easily be eliminated by page 30. That would leave about two thousand scripts fighting for the 350 or so QF spots. I can understand how competitive and close the scores can be.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nicholl 2013...

                      Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
                      Let me describe the judging process:

                      First round - all scripts are read twice. About 10-12% of the highest scoring scripts are read a third time. Best two of three scores determines the scripts that advance to:

                      Quarterfinal round - all scripts are read three times. Best five of six scores determines the scripts that advance to:

                      Semifinal round - all scripts are read four times by volunteer Academy members including producers, directors, writers, executives, actors, agents, etc. Best eight of ten scores, including at least three semifinal scores, determines the scripts that advance to:

                      Final round - the Academy Nicholl Committee, consisting currently of 14 members, reads the finalist scripts, meets to discuss the screenplays and then selects the up to five fellowship recipients.

                      How can a script reach the finals one year and not advance in the next?

                      The competition is highly competitive and the margin between advancing and not advancing from the first round is slight. For instance, last year a combined score of 163 (e.g., 82/81) advanced a script to the quarterfinal round. If a script only had a combined score of 162 (e.g., 81/81), it would not advance.

                      Plus the reading enterprise is highly subjective and readers often disagree about the quality of a script. Easy to be loved by one reader and disliked by the next.

                      BTW, scripts are not assigned to readers/judges who have read them (or the writer) in a prior year.
                      Also, odds are the writer entered the script in contests that offer feedback and/or hired someone like EvilRabbit to give them notes and/or got note from a writer friend, and then re-wrote themselves out of contention.
                      "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

                      Comment


                      • Re: Nicholl 2013...

                        Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                        No doubt there's always people who 'just miss' in tournament like settings. But of those 7k or so scripts, how many would you say(I know it would be a total educated guess) really have no shot and not because of genre. But because people tend to over rate themselves as a writer.
                        Not sure if it's fair to ask Greg that.

                        From a personally perspective I thought my first script was great. Five specs later, I cringe when I read it now. It was really pretty damn poor.

                        Obviously the Nicholl is by far the best contest out there. I have been a finalist in other contests and never received a read request as a result of that placing. With the Nicholl, I had 14+ following the Nicholl's mailout after placing in the semis. And indeed, quoting the Nicholl semis placement I'm sure opened some doors when I send out queries myself.

                        We all know the Nicholl's going to attract the best non-pro writers. And yeah there are some damn good non-pro writers out there. Just write the best script you possibly can, and enter it. Keep your fingers crossed and who knows what may happen. I'm hoping us DD souls we put up another great Nicholl showing this year.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Nicholl 2013...

                          Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                          No doubt there's always people who 'just miss' in tournament like settings. But of those 7k or so scripts, how many would you say(I know it would be a total educated guess) really have no shot and not because of genre. But because people tend to over rate themselves as a writer.

                          Looking back, I know the first two times I entered Nichol, I had no shot and didn't know it. Loose structure. Long winded dialogue. There's got to be about 75% of that field can probably be easily be eliminated by page 30. That would leave about two thousand scripts fighting for the 350 or so QF spots. I can understand how competitive and close the scores can be.
                          As has already been pointed out, there's not really a way to answer this question.

                          No shot whatsoever? The scripts that exhibit little screenwriting skill or storytelling ability? That's probably 10 or 20% of all entries.

                          Then there's a vast middleground ranging from not very good through average up to pretty good. The problem is that the difference in terms of score between not so good and pretty good often has to do with an element - the characters, the arena, some bits of funny dialogue, etc. - appealing to a reader who then overlooks other apparently glaring faults.

                          Most of these scripts eventually fall by the wayside and don't advance - but every once in a while, an element is so appealing that it proves attractive to two first round readers and the script advances to the quarterfinal round. No telling when this might happen, but it does happen occasionally every year.

                          The "pretty good" category certainly extends into the top 2000 and probably reaches the top 1000 - and the difference between "pretty good" and "good" is minimal - also mostly a matter of taste and connection with a particular script.

                          I've mentioned this before - but to see similar scoring discrepancies in action, just visit Rotten Tomatoes and contemplate the ratings for films you like and those you don't like. How could 20 or 30 or 50 or 80% of film reviewers come down on the wrong side of your own taste?

                          And yet they do - all the time. The same thing happens with screenplays and judges.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Nicholl 2013...

                            Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
                            Most of these scripts eventually fall by the wayside and don't advance - but every once in a while, an element is so appealing that it proves attractive to two first round readers and the script advances to the quarterfinal round. No telling when this might happen, but it does happen occasionally every year.
                            This happened to me. I think my premise and my third act were enough to get me into the QFs a few years ago, but once the competition was narrowed down to those that actually knew what they were doing (and I wasn't one of them), my script fell by the wayside.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Nicholl 2013...

                              Greg -

                              The stats about the number of scripts entered are on the Nicholl site -- 7,197 in 2012. But since people can enter up to 3 scripts each, how many unique entrants were there?

                              Thanks!
                              "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                              Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Nicholl 2013...

                                Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                                Greg -

                                The stats about the number of scripts entered are on the Nicholl site -- 7,197 in 2012. But since people can enter up to 3 scripts each, how many unique entrants were there?

                                Thanks!
                                As I responded on the Academy Nicholl Facebook page, we have no easy way to count unique individuals. Our super-duper, robust database doesn't include the search, but I think we have some convoluted route that may get to the result.

                                Best I can do right now is guess that the number of unique entrants was in the mid-5000s last year. Plus or minus 500.

                                Comment

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