My Black List Experience

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  • #46
    Re: My Black List Experience

    Dude, i guarantee that all the writers you're crapping on would get higher BL scores than yours. It's easy to say you're sorkin when nothing you have is out there to be criticized.

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    • #47
      Re: My Black List Experience

      There are technical reasons why Transformers dialogue has to play a certain way, and that has to do with clarity and translation for an international audience. It's easier said than done, working a story in those constraints. It takes real pro skill, and the more money in a franchise, the greater the difficulty.

      The writer was successful because he delivered on the premise for the intended audience. And I think to criticize one person's skill when movies are a largely collaborative effort is a huge mistake. It's what people who don't understand the process do. What critics do, not writers.

      You may not respond to a movie, but why trash it and trash a writer when the audience for it clearly does respond? That says more about you than the film.

      This is often the difference between a naive beginner and a salty dog. Real writers understand the monumental achievement it is to even get a movie made. They understand the pull of the different forces and the ability it takes to navigate those forces. For years they eat sh-t from people online so that they can feed their families and be a part of a collaborative effort which breaks the monotony of people's lives if only for a couple hours. And people seek it out because it's their food to get through it all. There are a lot of different kinds of meals and if you don't understand that, you are not a writer my friend!

      I mean all of that in good will and hope you prove us wrong. But I think if you do prove us wrong and success finds you, the business will also humble you at one point or another, and you will learn to appreciate all the people who bring revenue in, keep people working and keep the industry going in general.
      Last edited by madworld; 01-03-2015, 11:38 AM.

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      • #48
        Re: My Black List Experience

        Originally posted by madworld View Post
        There are technical reasons why Transformers dialogue has to play a certain way, and that has to do with clarity and translation for an international audience. It's easier said than done, working a story in those constraints. It takes real pro skill, and the more money in a franchise, the greater the difficulty.

        The writer was successful because he delivered on the premise for the intended audience. And I think to criticize one person's skill when movies are a largely collaborative effort is a huge mistake. It's what people who don't understand the process do. What critics do, not writers.

        You may not respond to a movie, but why trash it and trash a writer when the audience for it clearly does respond? That says more about you than the film.

        This is often the difference between a naive beginner and a salty dog. Real writers understand the monumental achievement it is to even get a movie made. They understand the pull of the different forces and the ability it takes to navigate those forces. For years they eat sh-t from people online so that they can feed their families and be a part of a collaborative effort which breaks the monotony of people's lives if only for a couple hours. And people seek it out because it's their food to get through it all. There are a lot of different kinds of meals and if you don't understand that, you are not a writer my friend!

        I mean all of that in good will and hope you prove us wrong. But I think if you do prove us wrong and success finds you, the business will also humble you at one point or another, and you will learn to appreciate all the people who bring revenue in, keep people working and keep the industry going in general.
        This +1000

        100 million + dollar films don't just happen. In fact, 1 million dollar films don't just happen. Ehren had a phalanx of people lined up to tell him what to write and how to write it. It's called filmmaking. If you've never been there you have no idea. And if you do get there, boy do you have a wake up call coming.

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        • #49
          Re: My Black List Experience

          Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
          I want to be a financial success and a critical success. Don't you?
          My goals are much simpler than that.

          1) I want to make a comfortable living.
          2) I want to tell stories I find interesting.
          3) I want to use the skills I've developed.

          I've also been in this business long enough for know that hitting even one of those three for a sustained period of time is a huge accomplishment. Knocking two of the three out of the park (which is, at the bare minimum, what he's doing - assuming he feels the way you do about the content of the stories, which I doubt) is a freakin' triumph.

          I care about critical and commercial success primarily to the extent that they facilitate the above things.

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          • #50
            Re: My Black List Experience

            I just want to leave something behind somebody paid money for that has my name engraved on the motherf--ker.
            We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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            • #51
              Re: My Black List Experience

              Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
              I just want to leave something behind somebody paid money for that has my name engraved on the motherf--ker.
              That was my goal too! So I carved my initials in my neighbors expensive Redwood tree.
              If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
              Dave Barry

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              • #52
                Re: My Black List Experience

                Originally posted by BillWilliams12345 View Post
                Dude, i guarantee that all the writers you're crapping on would get higher BL scores than yours. It's easy to say you're sorkin when nothing you have is out there to be criticized.
                I never said I was Sorkin. I said "I really hope that one day I'm known as an Aaron Sorkin and not as an Aaron Seltzer". Learn to read dude.

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                • #53
                  Re: My Black List Experience

                  Originally posted by Centurio View Post
                  That was my goal too! So I carved my initials in my neighbors expensive Redwood tree.
                  Ha! I'm stealing that line from you.
                  We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: My Black List Experience

                    Originally posted by madworld View Post
                    There are technical reasons why Transformers dialogue has to play a certain way, and that has to do with clarity and translation for an international audience. It's easier said than done, working a story in those constraints. It takes real pro skill, and the more money in a franchise, the greater the difficulty.
                    So technically Ehren was directed by Michael Bay to write terrible dialogue which was difficult because there was so much money involved?

                    Originally posted by madworld View Post
                    The writer was successful because he delivered on the premise for the intended audience. And I think to criticize one person's skill when movies are a largely collaborative effort is a huge mistake. It's what people who don't understand the process do. What critics do, not writers.
                    I've already previously stated that I get that Ehren is just a cog in a big machine. It's what critics do, not writers? Cinema Sins and Honest Trailers must do your head in because they're massive critics and write some funny stuff at the same time.

                    Originally posted by madworld View Post
                    You may not respond to a movie, but why trash it and trash a writer when the audience for it clearly does respond? That says more about you than the film.
                    Yep, says I didn't like the movie cause I thought it was trash.

                    Originally posted by madworld View Post
                    This is often the difference between a naive beginner and a salty dog. Real writers understand the monumental achievement it is to even get a movie made. They understand the pull of the different forces and the ability it takes to navigate those forces. For years they eat sh-t from people online so that they can feed their families and be a part of a collaborative effort which breaks the monotony of people's lives if only for a couple hours. And people seek it out because it's their food to get through it all. There are a lot of different kinds of meals and if you don't understand that, you are not a writer my friend!
                    As I've already stated previously, I get that Ehren's only part of it but your whole argument that if someone criticizes another writer or their work then they're not a writer themselves is weak. I think the movie is bad, so what? What is this, the Ehren Kruger fanclub? Dude's probably a really nice guy for all I know, I just happen to think that for a while now he's been cashing cheques on crap. As I said before, I wish they were my cheques but that being said, I still think they're crap movies.

                    Originally posted by madworld View Post
                    I mean all of that in good will and hope you prove us wrong. But I think if you do prove us wrong and success finds you, the business will also humble you at one point or another, and you will learn to appreciate all the people who bring revenue in, keep people working and keep the industry going in general.
                    I hope success finds me too and I'm not stupid enough to think I'll sell my work and it'll be all smooth sailing if I'm lucky enough to one day. I know that I'd have my share of critics and guys on forums bagging my work but no doubt, like Ehren, I won't care.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: My Black List Experience

                      This thread reminds me of the time someone bagged on Jack & Jill and Craig Mazin came out and challenged him to do better, since the poster was so obviously superior. That went well. Goes back to winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: My Black List Experience

                        Originally posted by canela View Post
                        This thread reminds me of the time someone bagged on Jack & Jill and Craig Mazin came out and challenged him to do better, since the poster was so obviously superior. That went well. Goes back to winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.
                        From Wikipedia:

                        Jack and Jill was heavily panned by critics, with some citing it as one of the worst films of all time. Salon stated that Jack and Jill "received some of the worst reviews of any movie ever" upon its release.[12] Review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a rating of 3%, based on 105 reviews, with a rating average of 2.6 out of 10. The site's consensus reads: "Although it features an inexplicably committed performance from Al Pacino, Jack and Jill is impossible to recommend on any level whatsoever."[13] On Metacritic, the film has a score of 23 out of 100, based on 26 critics, indicating "generally unfavorable reviews".

                        That's a lot of losers focusing on winners there.

                        It also might be why he was touchy about it and felt the need to basically go "YEAH...YEAH! You do better!" Movie made just under twice its budget sure, but a film widely panned by critics would still sting. 3% on Rotten Tomatoes....ouch.

                        Is my writing the best out there? HA! Am I making movies? Hell no. Are the writers mentioned in this thread more successful than me? Of course they are. Am I allowed to have an opinion? Damn straight. Personally I like debates like this, I'm not trying to be a dick or be rude I just like talking about movies good or bad. I made one comment about Transformers 4 which I thought was terrible and we got pages of healthy debate. What's wrong with that?

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                        • #57
                          Re: My Black List Experience

                          Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                          I made one comment about Transformers 4 which I thought was terrible and we got pages of healthy debate. What's wrong with that?
                          You made a comment about the WRITER.

                          No one's saying that writers should be sacrosanct, but you'd be much better served worrying about your own stuff rather than someone else's.

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                          • #58
                            Re: My Black List Experience

                            Originally posted by 60WordsPerHour View Post
                            You made a comment about the WRITER.

                            No one's saying that writers should be sacrosanct, but you'd be much better served worrying about your own stuff rather than someone else's.
                            I'm far more concerned about my own work than theirs but the way people on here are getting their backs up over some criticism is just silly.

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                            • #59
                              Re: My Black List Experience

                              Originally posted by canela View Post
                              This thread reminds me of the time someone bagged on Jack & Jill and Craig Mazin came out and challenged him to do better, since the poster was so obviously superior. That went well. Goes back to winners focus on winning, losers focus on winners.
                              I still stand by my criticism of the script (not writers) of Jack & Jill. And yes, I could write a better comedy. But why would I (or anyone else) choose to spend 6-12 months doing so? Maybe if Mazin promised me a pitch meeting with Paramount executives or something.
                              I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                              • #60
                                Re: My Black List Experience

                                Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
                                I still stand by my criticism of the script (not writers) of Jack & Jill. And yes, I could write a better comedy. But why would I (or anyone else) choose to spend 6-12 months doing so? Maybe if Mazin promised me a pitch meeting with Paramount executives or something.
                                Was it you directly? Ha! That's awesome. Man I would of demanded the even playing field if that's what he wanted to call you out on. Would've been a cool way to break into the industry if it'd worked. If it didn't..........

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