The Equalizer - groan!

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  • #46
    Re: The Equalizer - groan!

    The Equalizer was a minor drama that didn't even make it to 100 episodes. And that's the show whose legacy will be stained? That's the one whose fan base will be offended if the lead's race changes?

    Batty.

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    • #47
      Re: The Equalizer - groan!

      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
      I watched the trailer. Denzel looks to be in top form, here, bald head and all. With that said, I think the larger issue is that the original Equalizer -- as a serialized, episodic TV show -- was more character driven than plot driven.

      The trailer clearly shows Denzel's Equalizer is taking on the Russian Mob. That would be difficult to do in a tailored suit without breaking a sweat. The PLOT of this film indeed requires a different back story and characterization of the protag. Making him black ops trained is necessary because the plot requires a badass soldier verses a gentleman intelligence officer who happens to be good with a gun.

      So, I'm making an argument that the PLOT of this rebooted TV show adapted as a feature would not work with the original character, as is.

      This brings us to the question -- then why not an Anglo-Saxon black-ops trained badass with a Brit accent to honor the original character?

      The question alone presses a lot of "racist" buttons for many Americans. Folks on the other side of the pond don't usually get why it presses our buttons because they weren't born and raised here. "Your" logic ( ref. non- Americans, here) when arguing the point will only sound like more racism to those of us, in America, who deeply want to move toward total color-blindness for the sake of future generations. And, considering who we elected for two terms as our President, I can safely say, more than half of our country shares this goal. The remaining portion are slowing us down.

      It may seem quaint to Europeans when we Americans get all riled up over this topic but the reasons run deep to the core of our society. You'll simply have to accept it. (The same way I accept when Brits get misty-eyed over the royals.)

      You won't talk us out of it when we do react. Just understand such opinions will always sound racist to many of us. Whether or not there is some racism tucked into your POV is not for me to say. Search your own hearts to answer that question.
      An interesting deconstruction, even though I don't agree with it. The plot is what the writer makes of it, the way the writer executes it.

      McCall, who was basically a riff on a retired Bond (Lazenby was supposed to be the one to play the role, the silver-plated Walther PPK remained), faced all kinds of foes, from gangs to corrupt cops to spies and assassins, etc . Surely he took on the Russian mob, or at the very least something very similar. I can't really remember at the moment.

      So the classic McCall taking on the Russian mob would be like any other day. He had the skills, the help and a rather large arsenal to go with the rest. He wasn't just a gentleman officer, he killed for the government, many times over. That's why he decided to place the ad in the newspaper.

      Did it require a certain amount of suspension of disbelief? Certainly. What kind of genre fiction usually doesn't?

      There's a thread when Tom Cruise was announced as Jack Reacher. Most of the posters on that thread seemed to snipe at Cruise's height, even though it played no part in the plot (nudge nudge wink wink, B.). But unfortunately there seems to be a disappointing perceived notion of racism everywhere. Tunnel vision has been applied to color of skin, while the nature of accents remained ignored.

      Sniping at someone's height - that's okay - check

      http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ad.php?t=63364

      Anything else - racism - check

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrK_HVGOnUo

      Everybody's interchangeable - good thing they left the options open for there to be others besides shorter people actors at all in Snow White and The Hunstman.

      Robert Downey Jr. is owed a lot for the success of the first Iron Man (and surely has been rewarded for it). He not only acts the part, but he also looks the part. Same for the character's background. Which is somewhat intriguing, considering that the character had only existed as a cartoon and, most importantly, a comic book character before. It wasn't adapted from a film nor a live-action TV series. Simply a comic book. And yet, he definetly looked and sounded the part. Same for the other Marvel movies.

      In Batman Begins, Lucius Fox has the bowtie. Oldman looks like Gordon (minus the gray hair), and he even has the same facial expression in the way he slightly contorts his mouth downwards on certain occasions, as the character has many times been drawn. Liam Neeson's look didn't change throughout the movie, and yet he still managed to look like both Ducard and Ra's Al Ghul from the comics, in a well thoughtout balance. Superfluous details? Perhaps, but it earns a certain level of the fans' respect that they were there, that they cared enough about the source material.

      For my part, I've stated my opinion, I justified it and I'm done with it. The movie's not worth it, in relation to the original material, it has nothing to do with it. It just happens to share the same title and main character's name.

      The fan base would be fine with Denzel, as long as the movie (as a whole, characters included) respected the source material. It doesn't. Edward Woodward's legacy (his most memorable role, for it was his portrayal of the character that molded it, much like Indy Jones was molded by Harrison Ford - who, either if it's a pass-the-torch character or a reboot, wouldn't be the same without whip or fedora - but it doesn't matter to the plot, screw the charm of superfluous details) remains in the 80s. People who dislike the show are free to do so, nor do I consider them to have poor taste if that's the case. But surely then, that nobody would mind if they changed DW's character's name, along with the title of the movie. As it might be a hypothetical situation, it would also be a case of win-win.

      I perceive the importance of The Equalizer, along with Edward Woodward's portrayal of the character, through the impact it had at the time, especially with New Yorkers. People would often fuse fiction with reality and approach him with their problems. But shows that last 100 eps, or 12, doesn't matter.

      Nonetheless, hopefully, it will be an enjoyable movie. It's just not The Equalizer. A wasted opportunity as this movie could have perfectly existed alongside a more thoughtful adaptation of the original. But this movie might as well have been called Taken 3. Afterall, Bryan Mills is also an older retired badass.

      Michael Bay and Brett Ratner are called hacks, exactly for screwing around with the source material any way they see fit. I guess that as long as the shoe remains firmly on the same foot... Money's a strong motivator in any case. But if there's a certain, even if relative, amount of respect for the source material, it doesn't reek so bad of ego stroking (like in DW's or TC's case) and mercenary behaviour.
      Last edited by NotTheBard; 06-14-2014, 02:53 PM.

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      • #48
        Re: The Equalizer - groan!

        Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
        The Equalizer was a minor drama that didn't even make it to 100 episodes. And that's the show whose legacy will be stained? That's the one whose fan base will be offended if the lead's race changes?

        Batty.
        If people are this distraught over the Equalizer, there will be torch-wielding mobs and rending of garments when the new Annie comes out.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: The Equalizer - groan!

          Just because a show didn't stay on the air for 10 seasons and resulted in 4 spin-offs and a couple of movies, it doesn't mean its fan base doesn't care or that the show doesn't have a legacy. Consider the love there is for shows like MY SO CALLED LIFE, FIREFLY, FREAKS AND GEEKS, VERONICA MARS, or TWIN PEAKS.

          That said, those who have a problem with moving the action to the USA and casting Denzel shouldn't watch it. End of the problem.

          It's just a movie. And most movies, nowadays, are quickly forgotten.

          The pain will go away before you know it.

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          • #50
            Re: The Equalizer - groan!

            Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
            Just because a show didn't stay on the air for 10 seasons and resulted in 4 spin-offs and a couple of movies, it doesn't mean its fan base doesn't care or that the show doesn't have a legacy. Consider the love there is for shows like MY SO CALLED LIFE, FIREFLY, FREAKS AND GEEKS, VERONICA MARS, or TWIN PEAKS.
            Yep, those were all cult classics.

            This was The Equalizer.

            It's like being upset that they're messing up the legacy of Punky Brewster.

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            • #51
              Re: The Equalizer - groan!

              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
              Yep, those were all cult classics.

              This was The Equalizer.

              It's like being upset that they're messing up the legacy of Punky Brewster.

              Yo! I was a big Punky Brewster fan. Easy

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              • #52
                Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                You ever see a building that gets completely torn down except for the street-facing facade?

                Based on the June 2012 script, that seems to be what the producers are doing here with this IP. They took the TV show's name, and its notion - a quiet dude with certain skills helping people solve their problems with bad guys. Otherwise, there's no there there.

                As I posted above, I don't care about the race of the actor playing the protag; I just wish it was someone other than Denzel because he's such an obvious choice for this.

                Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                Just because a show didn't stay on the air for 10 seasons and resulted in 4 spin-offs and a couple of movies, it doesn't mean its fan base doesn't care or that the show doesn't have a legacy. Consider the love there is for shows like MY SO CALLED LIFE, FIREFLY, FREAKS AND GEEKS, VERONICA MARS, or TWIN PEAKS.

                That said, those who have a problem with moving the action to the USA and casting Denzel shouldn't watch it. End of the problem.

                It's just a movie. And most movies, nowadays, are quickly forgotten.

                The pain will go away before you know it.
                Yep, those were all cult classics.

                This was The Equalizer.

                It's like being upset that they're messing up the legacy of Punky Brewster.
                "The Equalizer" as a TV show premiered in the fall of 1985 and it ran on CBS, especially known back then as a network with an older demo. It starred a 55-year-old Brit and had no female lead.

                The other shows had female leads - some would say "hot" female leads - and premiered some years later. For example, "Twin Peaks" premiered in the spring of 1990. And none of those other shows ran on CBS.

                And so, depending on your age when each of those shows ran, and what your interests were at the time... What may be a "cult classic" to you might not be a "cult classic" to other people; and vice-versa.

                Like, some people say "Love that Bob" is a "cult classic"; at least that's what the people at the retro TV channels want us to think.

                Originally posted by Deion22 View Post
                Yo! I was a big Punky Brewster fan. Easy
                And, to each age-group its own.

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                • #53
                  Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                  Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                  Yep, those were all cult classics.

                  This was The Equalizer.

                  It's like being upset that they're messing up the legacy of Punky Brewster.
                  Hey, I'm sure a lot of people loved that show. And that's the thing: fans will be upset, however small their number.

                  I personally think that it's just a movie based on the show-a show I don't think I've ever watched-, and I don't see how any changes would damage the show.

                  Take Man of Steel, for instance. That was a terrible Superman movie (IMO), where Superman behaved in ways Superman traditionally wouldn't. Did it ruin Superman's legacy? No. It's just a forgettable movie.

                  My point was that the fact that a show is old, small, not so popular, or whatever, doesn't mean its fans are going to feel less strongly about it.

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                  • #54
                    Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                    Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                    But in lots of stories, if the writer writes without a sense of the gender or race of a central character, it seems to me that opportunities are being left on the table.
                    The thing is to dig deeper into character than boobs or balls or skin pigmentation to find who this person is under the skin. Because casting can change everything and if you hang your character's hat on race or sex and those things change... who is the character now?

                    My posts are in the context of this discussion, which seems to be focused on the (unimportant in this case) externals of the character instead of the *character* of the character. I think Denzel is perfect star casting for the Robert McCall. In fact, since the character was retired CIA, Woodward was strange casting.

                    There are some places where those externals become critical to the story and matter.

                    If, as a writer, you see your character as a bunch of external elements... you will always be disappointed in casting. If you see your character as what is beneath the skin: thought process, attitude, decision making, passions, code of honor, and all of the hundreds of other things that make up a person; what the actor they cast *looks like* is less important than what that actor can play... and you can be excited by the possibilities of having this star play your character. You have imagined *the character* rather than their exterior.

                    Bill
                    Free Script Tips:
                    http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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                    • #55
                      Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                      Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                      My posts are in the context of this discussion,
                      Absolutely.

                      Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                      There are some places where those externals become critical to the story and matter.

                      If, as a writer, you see your character as a bunch of external elements... you will always be disappointed in casting.
                      Well, sure. If race and gender are posited as "externals" in a given story, then, yeh, they are externals. I'm talking about when those things are internals - to the characters and/or to the plot.

                      Consider "Horrible Bosses". Could (for example) one or more of the 3 central characters genders have been changed there? Yes. But it would have changed the dynamic. (To be clear, I'm not saying that change would be a good thing or a bad thing; just that it would be "a thing".) If Jennifer Anniston's role had its gender switched - so it was then a male dentist and his male assistant - it would have been different, and IMO it should have been written differently. Yes, there would still be sexual harassment; and overall some of the setup and payoff could have been the same; but it's not just a swap-out/plug-and-play.

                      And then there's "Identity Thief"... I think if that were written so that a male or female actor could be cast with no changes made to the script, it would be leaving a lot on the table. The fact that the leads were male and female, versus male and male, was not just an "external".

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                      • #56
                        Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                        Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                        thought process, attitude, decision making, passions, code of honor, and all of the hundreds of other things that make up a person
                        P.S.:

                        Those are all different from the source material. The elements you mention are not the same when comparing the original McCall to the movie. "Badass that worked for the government and comes out of retirement" can be applied to any number of characters, like Taken's Bryan Mills.

                        DW's version and EW's share that very basic concept. Just not the thought process, attitude, decision making, passions, etc.

                        Still don't see how a character's height is important (as demonstrated by your sniping at Cruise's height in his casting annoncement thread) but not everything else, since neither directly affects the plot.

                        Whatevs.
                        Last edited by NotTheBard; 06-14-2014, 04:21 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                          I had no idea the legacy of THE EQUALIZER was being dishonored by Denzel Washington's involvement. I blame SANFORD AND SON for this travesty of allowing black actors to replace white actors in remakes.

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                          • #58
                            Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                            Originally posted by NotTheBard View Post
                            PStill don't see how a character's height is important (as demonstrated by your sniping at Cruise's height in his casting annoncement thread) but not everything else, since neither directly affects the plot.
                            I can assume from that comment that you haven't read the books. Reacher's size and strength is a large part of who the character is and how he interacts with the world.

                            Some factors are important to a character. Some aren't. You'd have a hard time having Atticus Finch played by a black actor without screwing up what made the source material special. You'd have an easy time having The Equalizer played by a black actor.

                            Pointing out that race (or any characteristic) is important to some characters doesn't mean that race is important to all characters. Demanding that The Equalizer be white sounds... um... intolerant.

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                            • #59
                              Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                              The OP (moviefan) started this maelstrom and hasn't been seen or heard from since. "Interesting. Very interesting!" -- Werner Klemperer as Col. Klink in 'Hogan's Heroes.'
                              “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                              • #60
                                Re: The Equalizer - groan!

                                I was a big Equalizer fan and am looking forward to this one.

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