Plough through or correct as you go?

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  • #16
    Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

    I write with intent and purpose. I don't wing it. I know what I want to write, for the most part. It's easier the better my outline. I don't write vomit drafts. I couldn't do it even if I tried, it's not my style.

    There is little need to rewrite for cosmetic reasons: typos, grammar, widows, clarity or paragraph length, because I do write with this intent.

    I can write 12 pages a day with a strong outline and the proper setting. Being able to focus alone for all 12 hours is important to my process. No phone, no internet. No distractions. A break once in a while.

    I will go back, as I write, and lay in set ups and payoffs as new ideas or story beats occur down stream. I will review the written pages and tweak dialogue, but establish a strong basis for the intention. When the script is complete, that's the time to go back and rework dialogue and action to better support the story intention.

    Sometimes, occasionally, I will have one line of dialogue that is on the nose with another that has the subtext I'm going for-- a place card. When I rewrite I will then delete the OTN sentence and rework the subtext dialogue based on how the story progresses to the end.

    My goal is to rewrite as little as possible of the cosmetic aspects when the first draft is done, so I can focus solely on the story and characters during the rewrites. It's a matter of efficiency for me.

    There are always additional drafts. Those drafts are fun and not a chore.
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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    • #17
      Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

      Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
      Jeff,

      Do you ever not make it to fade out(given you are writing a spec and not under contract to turn something in)? Do you ever get to the middle of the script and change your opinion on the viability of the story or have the energy you started with fizzle out?
      I've played around with pages that didn't go anywhere, but if I break a detailed outline, I think I've always finished it.

      I think there's a lesson there I refuse to learn.

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      • #18
        Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

        Honestly, I think this is all pointless because it's people telling us their process -- as they see it. But we are very bad judges of what we do in general. I'm reading -- I just write don't worry about it -- and I make it perfect with every line -- ha ha. Sure you do!

        I'm just saying, it honestly does not matter what I do and even if I tried to be as honest as possible, I'm probably lying without trying.

        The only way to know for sure is to watch someone work which would be impossible. Just imagine a camera capturing every moment of you writing and how weird that would be.

        What I'm saying is the script is finished when it's finished. I do not see how you can get to ending of script, rewriting along the way and it not be a mess. To me, I have to see the whole thing to know what to keep - move -change. How often do I write something only to lose it later?

        And I laugh honestly at some writers on these board that tell us how great they are at writing process when that doesn't matter at all. No one reads your spec and goes -- this stinks -- but man their process is outstanding.

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        • #19
          Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

          Originally posted by sc111 View Post
          I correct, tweak and polish as I go.
          Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
          There is little need to rewrite for cosmetic reasons: typos, grammar, widows, clarity or paragraph length, because I do write with this intent.
          Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
          I'm a correct as you go type, I'm too anal not to keep looking back and fiddling.
          Originally posted by Prezzy View Post
          I rewrite as I go. I also have a tendency to go back and cut out length when I feel like I'm off my mark by a few pages when it comes to structural beats.
          Thanks, guys. I must admit I'm surprised to see so many people do as I do At least I know I'm not alone!
          M.A.G.A.

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          • #20
            Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

            Originally posted by FA4
            I can write 12 pages a day with a strong outline and the proper setting. Being able to focus alone for all 12 hours is important to my process. No phone, no internet. No distractions. A break once in a while.
            What's a strong outline to you?
            M.A.G.A.

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            • #21
              Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

              Originally posted by Bono View Post
              Honestly, I think this is all pointless because it's people telling us their process -- as they see it. But we are very bad judges of what we do in general. I'm reading -- I just write don't worry about it -- and I make it perfect with every line -- ha ha. Sure you do!

              I'm just saying, it honestly does not matter what I do and even if I tried to be as honest as possible, I'm probably lying without trying.

              The only way to know for sure is to watch someone work which would be impossible. Just imagine a camera capturing every moment of you writing and how weird that would be.

              What I'm saying is the script is finished when it's finished. I do not see how you can get to ending of script, rewriting along the way and it not be a mess. To me, I have to see the whole thing to know what to keep - move -change. How often do I write something only to lose it later?

              And I laugh honestly at some writers on these board that tell us how great they are at writing process when that doesn't matter at all. No one reads your spec and goes -- this stinks -- but man their process is outstanding.
              If you already decided this is pointless, and writers who polish as they go will still end up with a mess, then why did you pose the question?
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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              • #22
                Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                What question did I ask?

                I did not say scripts would end a mess if you do it a certain way. I was saying I DO NOT GET how you can write in a straight line and go from page 1 to 120 without having to go back to page 1 and start again to make sure you don't have to change anything. That's all.

                Whatever works for you is great. But I doubt hearing someone say "I do it this way" will make me change my ways. It's interesting but hard to change habits.
                Last edited by Bono; 06-12-2020, 04:20 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                  Originally posted by Bono View Post
                  What question did I ask?

                  I did not say scripts would end a mess if you do it a certain way. I was saying I DO NOT GET how you can write in a straight line and go from page 1 to 120 without having to go back to page 1 and start again to make sure you don't have to change anything. That's all.

                  Whatever works for you is great. But I doubt hearing someone say "I do it this way" will make me change my ways. It's interesting but hard to change habits.
                  Sorry, I had it in my head you were the OP. I didn't realize the thread was started by Sundown who posed the question in the title.

                  Still, it seems to me you were dismissing people who chose "correct as you go" when you said: "I do not see how you can get to ending of script, rewriting along the way and it not be a mess."

                  A pro writer tells you this is his process, and by the time he gets to fade out he's reading to send the script out within 24 hours, and you're essentially telling him you don't believe him.

                  Perhaps I'm in a cranky mood due to screwed up sleep, however when I read your comment I was irked.
                  Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                  • #24
                    Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                    It's the final product that matters, there isn't a right or wrong way to get there, just what's right or wrong for you.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                      it seems to me you were dismissing people who chose "correct as you go" when you said: "I do not see how you can get to ending of script, rewriting along the way and it not be a mess."

                      A pro writer tells you this is his process, and by the time he gets to fade out he's reading to send the script out within 24 hours, and you're essentially telling him you don't believe him.

                      Perhaps I'm in a cranky mood due to screwed up sleep, however when I read your comment I was irked.
                      I felt the same and tried to move the thread on. I mean, if you think the entire point of the thread is pointless then don't enter. I'm guessing most of his digs were at Cyfress, and I get why, but everyone knows to take Cy with a ton of salt so why bother entering the thread just to smash plates and kick the dog?

                      As for the pro writer's process, SC, I'm pretty sure that Jeff was taking the piss.
                      Last edited by SundownInRetreat; 06-13-2020, 06:46 AM.
                      M.A.G.A.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                        For those writers who do not outline, I strongly suggest to "plough through." Otherwise, you will be doing A LOT of unnecessary correction, polishing, etc., since in the end when you, the writer, sees what you got, a lot of the major elements that make up the story are gonna be rewritten.

                        For me, since I spend a lot of time and energy to outline my story beforehand, I'm able to edit scenes, dialogue, description, etc. as I go. I'm able to correct spelling, grammar, etc. as I go. I'm able to polish as I go.

                        Sometimes when I'm stuck on how to move forward, instead of wasting time when no creativity is coming to me, I'll go back and clean up the previous pages. It clears my mind.

                        When I start to write in the mornings (this is when I'm at my freshest), I'll go back and reread some of the previous pages to give me momentum into the new pages, which I'll edit, correct, etc. as I go.

                        If I see certain pages need to be rewritten, I'll do it, but the majority of this usually happens once the script is completed and I can see it in its whole, and then rewritten again after feedback.

                        Will I end up deleting scenes that I previous edited, corrected, etc., as I go, yes, this will happen, but it wouldn't be a lot and this work was necessary anyway to have it in shape for the readers.

                        I like editing, correcting, etc. as I go because of what I previously mentioned, but also it's a big psychological help, where I know once I write FADE OUT all this little tedious stuff is completed and I don't have to go back over 110 pages to accomplish this, though in my case -- 129 pages.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                          Originally posted by Anagram View Post
                          It's the final product that matters, there isn't a right or wrong way to get there, just what's right or wrong for you.
                          Yes. I agree with this comment.

                          Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                          I think it depends on the results you see in your process and if you are happy with them or not. (and) I think you need to get into the mindset that it's ok if you have a lot of work to do.
                          Yes. I agree with these comments also.

                          Recently I “completed” a screenplay dedicated to a specific competition for Public Domain material. In 2009, I wrote the first iteration of this screen version re-telling of the story, but as a first effort, the script turned out to be as literary as its source material.

                          Years later and much better educated about screenwriting, I worked on an outline until I solved the jigsaw puzzle. Then, I rewrote the script from page one—each day rewriting and editing what was written the day before to gain momentum to continue to its next pages—until now it looks wholly different from its original. So much so, I decided on a different title, too.

                          After multiple edits and proofreads, waiting until the deadline of the contest drew near (within two days), I finally launched it off to the U.S. Copyright Office and then the contest. I was glad I waited until the last because I kept finding and correcting minutiae—all according to the outline—that made the read more smooth.

                          The night I sent off the script, though, I lay in bed on my way to the Land of Nod thinking about the script. It was then I realized how I could have better ordered the scenes of a particular sequence to make the story move along with a better reveal for the reader of a main character’s personality. The reordering of the scenes would differ from how the source material timeline and chronology tell the story, but now I see how it would tell a better screen story.

                          It’s time to rewrite what’s already written to see how the idea will play on the page. I can safely say I’m never finished rewriting a screenplay. Only a deadline makes me submit them to one place or another as “completed.” A screenwriter must prepare to rewrite what they believe is “finished” anyway because it’s a sure thing managers and producers want the writer to implement their notes in a rewrite.
                          Last edited by Clint Hill; 06-13-2020, 06:09 AM.
                          “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                          • #28
                            Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                            Whatever your process is is fine. The thread isn't pointless. My posts were not attacking anyone in a personal way -- I was talking in generalities. My thoughts were not coming only from posters on this thread.

                            To clarify (and I think this was Jeff's main point) is I don't just write shitty first drafts for the sake of getting the story out. I may write bad dialogue and have scene in wrong place -- but I'm trying to make my first draft the final draft.

                            So when I say "vomit draft" I'm saying if I know I just wrote the right scenes and it's sort of funny, I'll move on the the rest of the script. But yes if I hate the first 20 pages -- I can't move on to page 21 until I fix those -- but the pages never have to be perfect for me to move on -- just very good.

                            And yes I guess I have to WRITE in 10 pages chunks -- I can't judge 1 page by itself then move on to next page... I need a group of pages to judge them.

                            So see -- as I was trying to say -- it's hard to explain your process to other people because I can't even explain it to myself. I just do it. I don't think about it. Until I get on message boards.
                            Last edited by Bono; 06-13-2020, 09:32 AM. Reason: CAN'T SPELL

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                            • #29
                              Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                              Why do you think his digs are at me and why do you get it? And I hate salt. I love your passive aggressiveness though. I find it amusing.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Plough through or correct as you go?

                                I outline, so that's where I do story revisions. If something needs to be revised while writing the first draft, I do it immediately in the outline and then write accordingly.

                                Once the outline is in place, I vomit. Which generally means that writing is less polished and elegant. Much of it is clumsy. I don't want to get stuck in the finesse of writing at that point. I do it once the story is in place, on my later drafts.

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