The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

    Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
    Between us all (and there are major contest finalists and winners amongst us), someone should have hit the mark somewhere, but nope. Nothing. Nada. We all had the same common denominator gripe though: our script review summaries (the non-numerical portions) seemed a little dodgy.
    ...
    Your thoughts and comments? (I do expect a fair amount of trolls and paid shills to come out in force on this one, in addition to the rational and objective thinkers that I welcome), but hey, there's nothing better than a healthy, no-holds-barred, uncensored discussion about a hot topic.
    Okay, I'll weigh in. I did an adaptation assignment and it was sent to the BL to gain some "independent oversight" for investors. I didn't pay for it, so take that for what it's worth. First review came back 8s and 9s on everything but plot (it's an adaptation, so there's only so far I could go with that). The feedback was spot on, in my opinion, and it was obvious the reader had spent some time on it. Another review came in, which was slightly lower scores, but again, the review summary was spot on and agreed fairly closely with the first, even though the scores differed. And it also went out on the BL email list (BTW: It's no longer posted, all they wanted was to see how it would do in "neutral" circles) - so, in spite of the fact that I am NOT a major contest winner (but yeah, I've done okay here & there in the past, monetarily), I have NO pull in any entertainment industry circle, pretty much no one but my mom knows my name, I got decent scores and good feedback. Because it was... (wait for it)
    A PRETTY GOOD SCRIPT.
    Now, I could name some contests (still in existence) that have provided "feedback" - where it was NOT EVEN THE SAME SCRIPT THAT WAS ENTERED!!! All I can say is (like every other profession where subjectivity is going to play a factor) "your mileage may vary" and if you don't agree with the BL feedback, it's still about the ONLY resource I know where you can take your concerns and be certain they will be looked at.

    Comment


    • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

      I just need to get this one in before the thread is locked, quoting Rangemaster:

      " my position that the BL exploits and monetizes (brilliantly) the sweeping generalization (because no hard studies have actually occurred), that most scripts are not good"

      If you need a scientific study to prove to you that most scripts are bad, then I have a flat earth you may be interested in purchasing.

      Comment


      • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

        I made the top ten on Lugnut List. As long as he likes it, I'm not too worried.
        We gain our innocence by taking yours.

        Comment


        • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

          I can't believe this thread is still open.

          Comment


          • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

            Thoughts I've had reading all the latest:
            • I agree with bmcthomas on page 9 (I think) and was going to post basically the same thing. At this stage in my life, the amount of time spent is way more valuable than a few hundred dollars here and there. And the amount of time it takes to filter through possible people to query, finding the right email, etc. and doing it with a script you're not even sure will resonate costs way more in my mind than what Blacklist, or a reputable query service costs in dollars (not that I don't still do the tedious legwork of making contacts on my own).
            • I live 2,000 miles from LA, just about as far removed from contacts and networking and people in the know as one can be, but I can tell you with absolutely certainty from way over here that if Blacklist and Franklin Leonard were operating a scam, I would have heard about it by now. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the first thing about this business we're trying to get into.
            • If you really want to do some valuable research, write a script, somehow get it to score 1s and 2s on the Blacklist, don't change a thing about the script, produce it yourself, then win an Oscar with it, or bring in nine figures of revenue. Then maybe do it again because there could always be an anomaly. Good luck because I don't think it's possible, but if you do I think that would tell you something about terrible, unprofessional readers. It's easy to say your idea is the greatest thing in the world when it's not your money being burned up to make the darn thing.
            On Twitter @DeadManSkipping

            Comment


            • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

              Originally posted by CColoredClown View Post
              I can't believe this thread is still open.
              Speaking for myself, I don't see any more fighting or other troublesome behavior going on at the moment. Now, if the thread starts going round and round in circles again, or gets all flamey, that's another question. (Those aren't invitations, btw. )

              Seems to me the best way to counteract claims of cover-ups and skullduggery is, as much as possible, not to close threads like this as long as folks can continue to be civil to one another. Much better if it just dies off when there's nothing more to say.

              Other mods or admins may disagree, of course.
              Last edited by Patrick Sweeney; 01-21-2014, 12:47 PM.
              Patrick Sweeney

              Comment


              • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
                "Writers received a bribe?" I don't follow what you're saying and I can't appropriately respond to you until I get some more clarity on what you're trying to say. I didn't imply that any writer received a bribe. Where are you getting this from?

                Maybe this?:

                "I do expect a fair amount of trolls and paid shills..."

                Look, how you spend or don't spend your money to further your own career is your business. I haven't posted anything on the Blacklist, so I don't have a dog in the race, but I do see the way Franklin responds to people, with what I regard as integrity, over and over again.

                I've entered contests, and re-entered, or not re-entered them, based on a lack of perceived value. I've won a big one, made a fair bit of money from others, and still not gotten the kind of traction I'd like. In the end, what matters is getting the script into the hands of people who will get the movie made. So don't use the Black List, if you don't like it. It's a paid short cut a lot of people seem to find valuable.

                You can always query FOR FREE instead.

                Incidentally, of these people in this discontented writer's group (and since we haven't heard from anyone else in this group, we only have your word for that they are discontented), how many people have sold a script or gotten management from the scripts that you claim the Black List snubbed? Maybe you should do a scientific study of that.

                Comment


                • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                  Originally posted by Patrick Sweeney View Post
                  Speaking for myself, I don't see any more fighting or other troublesome behavior going on at the moment. Now, if the thread starts going round and round in circles again, or gets all flamey, that's another question. (Those aren't invitations, btw. )

                  Seems to me the best way to counteract claims of cover-ups and skullduggery is, as much as possible, not to close threads like this as long as folks can continue to be civil to one another. Much better if it just dies off when there's nothing more to say.

                  Other mods or admins may disagree, of course.
                  That said, please ask yourself before you post if you have anything new to bring to the table, because if this just ends up in an endless death spiral of people repeating the same claims and responses, it will be locked. Thank you.
                  Patrick Sweeney

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                    Franklin,

                    For the business you're engaged in, you have no choice but to appear as yourself. I don't think you are foolish enough to lie (breaking the spoon), but the spoon can be bent, and that's not lying.

                    Nothing extraordinary about WGA partnership. Yes, BL is partnered with the guild, but why wouldn't the guild partner with BL? BL offered guild members multiple freebies, hosting, and the like, and BL also posts guild reference materials on its site. As a business, if you offered me this free product placement and advertisement, why wouldn't I accept it? Long story short, the partnership only benefits the guild and its members.

                    You assert that 2300 industry professionals have joined your site to find material.

                    This is an incendiary generalization when one takes the time to define "industry professionals;" actors, directors, grips, extras, gophers, gaffers, etc. They are ALL "industry professionals," and they cannot all be possibly looking for material. This is a perfect example of spoon bending.

                    You said "15K downloads, several dozen writers signed, several dozen sales, one produced movie, three blind deals at Warner Bros (and I'm sure more than we're not yet aware of.)"

                    Please provide a list of your signed writers so that I may more easily conduct my research.

                    "You're not posting under your own name."

                    I'm not the public figure in this discussion. You are, because you're selling a service and you have a responsibility to your customers in the form of complete disclosure.

                    "You keep refusing my offers to attend your writers group. This is odd to me for three reasons: 1. Even if everyone has made up their mind about the Black List. Surely, my attendance might be valuable based on my ten years in feature film development working for Leonardo DiCaprio, Sydney Pollack & Anthony Minghella, Universal Pictures, and Will Smith. I'm game to answer questions about that as well. 2. You'd have the opportunity to dress me down publicly, presumably in front of people who already hold you in great esteem. 3. You didn't offer that opportunity to the rest of your writers group. You unilaterally refused my offer on their behalf."

                    The group doesn't meet all together in person. Can it be arranged? Probably, but I don't think it would be productive when the issues can be addressed right here. This discussion also benefits the many writers on this board that are not a part of our group. This is why your offer has been rebuffed.

                    "Based on my ten years of reading scripts professionally, most scripts are not good. Please let the response to this statement be that it's hearsay and we therefore must doubt its veracity."

                    It's still an unscientific generalization.

                    "This is something we've acknowledged from the beginning. I encourage you to read The What, The How, and The Why of the Black List, the Long Answer which I wrote the day after we launched (and based on the depth of your research thus far, I'm reasonably certain you haven't bothered to read.)"

                    Trust that I've read it.

                    "Actually, it's paying for a script evaluation. You pay $50 and you get a brief evaluation of your screenplay from an experienced industry professional with knowledge of the current marketplace for scripts. And you get it in three weeks or you get a free month of hosting from us (valued at $25).If you can name any other reputable service online that offers a similar service that quickly (with a penalty) at a cost even twice as much, do let me know."

                    I can't name another service under those parameters, just like you can't purchase a Big Mac from Burker King. What I'm saying is: it's all fast food irrespective of the nuances. BL, Inktip, same thing, you have to pay.

                    "Again, $100 is probably less than you'd pay to get anyone reputable outside of the Black List service to read your script and give you feedback. Same thing would happen if you rewrote a script and wanted feedback from another reputable script doctor, only they would likely be far more expensive.I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point, but essentially you're describing the behavior of any writer, but using a service that's far cheaper and has far greater access than any other remotely similar venture."

                    The access cannot be independently verified, and the business model, however cheap, still operates on the slot machine paradigm.

                    "So you're essentially blaming us for the writer's refusal to give up their dream, despite the fact that we give lower scores than most competitions and provide full transparency about the utter lack of interest in their work."

                    Not at all.

                    "I've said it before and I'll say it again: [B]If we're not providing you some real value (either insight into how to improve your script via the evaluations or traction for your script within the industry), stop giving us your money. How much clearer can I be?

                    You will only keep coming back for more if you're delusional enough to think that reader after reader after reader after reader is wrong about your genius, and you ignore my previous warning: [B]If we're not providing you some real value (either insight into how to improve your script via the evaluations or traction for your script within the industry), stop giving us your money."

                    This is a superb argument. By appearing "less greedy," that makes BL appear truthful, honest, and inherently good?

                    "The scenario you describe means you have $75 less in your pocket, not hundreds. Here are the facts, if you get a single 8, you're going to see attention on the site (folks who have had one, back me up on this.) What you choose to do with that attention is entirely your decision."

                    I want those who have received an 8 or better to indeed step up and back Franklin up on this. Questions abound.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                      You're going to have to learn how to properly format quotes if you expect anyone to keep reading your posts.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                        We've hit that point in the party where a middle-aged drunk guy sits next to you and starts - 'The thing about women, right, is this...' It's like an argument between Ricky Gervais and the Pope, only far less funny. I'm out.

                        Don't stay up too late kids.
                        My stuff

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

                          Originally posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
                          Franklin,

                          For the business you're engaged in, you have no choice but to appear as yourself. I don't think you are foolish enough to lie (breaking the spoon), but the spoon can be bent, and that's not lying.

                          Nothing extraordinary about WGA partnership. Yes, BL is partnered with the guild, but why wouldn't the guild partner with BL? BL offered guild members multiple freebies, hosting, and the like, and BL also posts guild reference materials on its site. As a business, if you offered me this free product placement and advertisement, why wouldn't I accept it? Long story short, the partnership only benefits the guild and its members.

                          You assert that 2300 industry professionals have joined your site to find material.

                          This is an incendiary generalization when one takes the time to define "industry professionals;" actors, directors, grips, extras, gophers, gaffers, etc. They are ALL "industry professionals," and they cannot all be possibly looking for material. This is a perfect example of spoon bending.

                          You said "15K downloads, several dozen writers signed, several dozen sales, one produced movie, three blind deals at Warner Bros (and I'm sure more than we're not yet aware of.)"

                          Please provide a list of your signed writers so that I may more easily conduct my research.

                          "You're not posting under your own name."

                          I'm not the public figure in this discussion. You are, because you're selling a service and you have a responsibility to your customers in the form of complete disclosure.

                          "You keep refusing my offers to attend your writers group. This is odd to me for three reasons: 1. Even if everyone has made up their mind about the Black List. Surely, my attendance might be valuable based on my ten years in feature film development working for Leonardo DiCaprio, Sydney Pollack & Anthony Minghella, Universal Pictures, and Will Smith. I'm game to answer questions about that as well. 2. You'd have the opportunity to dress me down publicly, presumably in front of people who already hold you in great esteem. 3. You didn't offer that opportunity to the rest of your writers group. You unilaterally refused my offer on their behalf."

                          The group doesn't meet all together in person. Can it be arranged? Probably, but I don't think it would be productive when the issues can be addressed right here. This discussion also benefits the many writers on this board that are not a part of our group. This is why your offer has been rebuffed.

                          "Based on my ten years of reading scripts professionally, most scripts are not good. Please let the response to this statement be that it's hearsay and we therefore must doubt its veracity."

                          It's still an unscientific generalization.

                          "This is something we've acknowledged from the beginning. I encourage you to read The What, The How, and The Why of the Black List, the Long Answer which I wrote the day after we launched (and based on the depth of your research thus far, I'm reasonably certain you haven't bothered to read.)"

                          Trust that I've read it.

                          "Actually, it's paying for a script evaluation. You pay $50 and you get a brief evaluation of your screenplay from an experienced industry professional with knowledge of the current marketplace for scripts. And you get it in three weeks or you get a free month of hosting from us (valued at $25).If you can name any other reputable service online that offers a similar service that quickly (with a penalty) at a cost even twice as much, do let me know."

                          I can't name another service under those parameters, just like you can't purchase a Big Mac from Burker King. What I'm saying is: it's all fast food irrespective of the nuances. BL, Inktip, same thing, you have to pay.

                          "Again, $100 is probably less than you'd pay to get anyone reputable outside of the Black List service to read your script and give you feedback. Same thing would happen if you rewrote a script and wanted feedback from another reputable script doctor, only they would likely be far more expensive.I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point, but essentially you're describing the behavior of any writer, but using a service that's far cheaper and has far greater access than any other remotely similar venture."

                          The access cannot be independently verified, and the business model, however cheap, still operates on the slot machine paradigm.

                          "So you're essentially blaming us for the writer's refusal to give up their dream, despite the fact that we give lower scores than most competitions and provide full transparency about the utter lack of interest in their work."

                          Not at all.

                          "I've said it before and I'll say it again: [b]If we're not providing you some real value (either insight into how to improve your script via the evaluations or traction for your script within the industry), stop giving us your money. How much clearer can I be?

                          You will only keep coming back for more if you're delusional enough to think that reader after reader after reader after reader is wrong about your genius, and you ignore my previous warning: [b]If we're not providing you some real value (either insight into how to improve your script via the evaluations or traction for your script within the industry), stop giving us your money."

                          This is a superb argument. By appearing "less greedy," that makes BL appear truthful, honest, and inherently good?

                          "The scenario you describe means you have $75 less in your pocket, not hundreds. Here are the facts, if you get a single 8, you're going to see attention on the site (folks who have had one, back me up on this.) What you choose to do with that attention is entirely your decision."

                          I want those who have received an 8 or better to indeed step up and back Franklin up on this. Questions abound.
                          There's basically nothing here that wasn't already said in your very first post. Or your subsequent ones. This is pretty much the definition of going round and round in circles.

                          I don't like to lock threads, particularly when accusations of lack of transparency are being leveled, but there's nothing to be gained by infinite haggling back and forth over the exact same ground, either.

                          As it turns out, I was mistaken about the value of keeping this one open. Thread locked.
                          Patrick Sweeney

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X