Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

    Originally posted by CameronAlexander View Post
    I think in 2013 there will definitely be some new talent discovered.
    TV talent once that hosting starts in mid-Jan. Maybe me?
    "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

      Originally posted by jtwg50 View Post
      Kremin was a Blackl List insider, not a "newly discovered" or "unknown" writer. It looks like the game was rigged from the beginning. And now BL is getting articles in Wired and The Wall Street Journal, so the business will grow exponentially, with most of the writers throwing their money away.
      The big winner here is -- Franklin Leonard. After getting laid off from Will Smith's production company and being unemployed, he has come up with the greatest get rich quick scheme of modern times. There are more than 5,300 scripts being hosted now. At $25 a month, that's $132,500 a month. If 20% of those went for reviews at $50 and we know he's paying a paltry $25 for his reviews, that's another $26,500 profit in his pocket -- so far.
      I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank.
      Assuming Franklin has an attrition rate of about 25-30%, but also continues to sign on new writers from his massive PR efforts, he will make $1 million this year -- way, way out of proportion to the real value he is delivering for the few lucky writers he breaks in -- assuming there will be any more.
      He'll make 5 or 10 times what he made working for Will Smith. Is that fair? is that justified?
      Reason: In a GOOD year for specs, maybe three or four scripts by new/unknown writers will sell. And in my opinion, based partly on my own experience, if a script is good enough to sell, it's good enough to get noticed by reps and producers without paying anybody money -- and I live 3,000 miles from Hollywood.
      But the other fact is that 5,295 of the 5,300 scripts hosted will never go anywhere. The people who paid might as well have bought a lottery ticket.
      Calls to mind the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted."
      Did you drink some crazy juice this morning? The young man was an intern. Do you have any clue how many screenwriters make it in Hollywood because they put in the time as interns/readers/assistants/execs? Tons! They do it because they are committed to their goal of making it as a writer.

      As for that venom you just spit at Franklin, I'll just say you are wayyyy off. And I for one couldn't be happier with the hard work he is doing. The reason he is getting praises in those outlets is because he is doing a great job.

      And, for the record, a colleague and I signed a writer off of the black list 2 weeks ago. Nobody knows who that is, we haven't publicized it, I never even told Franklin. Only my firm and the writer knows. We had the writer take the script down off the site, you can't even look it up anymore. We are developing it with him and will go out with it when it's ready. The writer doesn't live in LA either.

      The reason I say that now is that you are making your statement off of one script, one situation, not taking into account the many others that aren't as public. Quite a few people have found reps through it. McCarthy just happens to be the first high profile one, and it's a great story.

      Personally, Kremlin could have given every reader a foot massage while reading his script and I wouldn't care. The guy wrote a very good script, and as I have said a thousand times, that is what matters.

      Instead of being "angry at the system" that doesn't welcome you with open arms, why not be happy for another writer? Life's to short to be bitter or angry.

      Best,

      MB
      Last edited by michaelb; 12-16-2012, 01:10 PM. Reason: typo
      twitter.com/mbotti

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

        I think dynamite just went boom.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

          Originally posted by michaelb View Post
          Did you drink some crazy juice this morning? The young man was an intern. Do you have any clue how many screenwriters make it in Hollywood because they put in the time as interns/readers/assistants/execs? Tons! They do it because they are committed to their goal of making it as a writer.

          As for that venom you just spit at Franklin, I'll just say you are wayyyy off. And I for one couldn't be happier with the hard work he is doing. The reason he is getting praises in those outlets is because he is doing a great job.

          And, for the record, a colleague and I signed a writer off of the black list 2 weeks ago. Nobody knows who that is, we haven't publicized it, I never even told Franklin. Only my firm and the writer knows. We had the writer take the script down off the site, you can't even look it up anymore. We are developing it with him and will go out with it when it's ready. The writer doesn't live in LA either.

          The reason I say that now is that you are making your statement off of one script, one situation, not taking into account the many others that aren't as public. Quite a few people have found reps through it. McCarthy just happens to be the first high profile one, and it's a great story.

          Personally, Kremlin could have given every reader a foot massage while reading his script and I wouldn't care. The guy wrote a very good script, and as I have said a thousand times, that is what matters.

          Instead of being "angry at the system" that doesn't welcome you with open arms, why not be happy for another writer? Life's to short to be bitter or angry.

          Best,

          MB
          Appreciate it Michael. I don't know how you knew about the foot massages, but I promise it only influenced 'em just a little bit.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

            Originally posted by michaelb View Post

            And, for the record, a colleague and I signed a writer off of the black list 2 weeks ago. Nobody knows who that is, we haven't publicized it, I never even told Franklin. Only my firm and the writer knows. We had the writer take the script down off the site, you can't even look it up anymore. We are developing it with him and will go out with it when it's ready. The writer doesn't live in LA either.

            MB
            Michael, this is great news and gives newbies like me the additional encouragement we need to dip our toes into the BL3 waters. Congrats to you and the writer you signed!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

              Originally posted by michaelb View Post

              And, for the record, a colleague and I signed a writer off of the black list 2 weeks ago. Nobody knows who that is, we haven't publicized it, I never even told Franklin. Only my firm and the writer knows. We had the writer take the script down off the site, you can't even look it up anymore. We are developing it with him and will go out with it when it's ready. The writer doesn't live in LA either.

              Best,

              MB
              Awesome. Congrats to you and the writer. Michael, you will develop the script more and work with the writer. Are you picking scripts by genre or logline; or primarily by pro reader ratings?

              I had a script on there and got a 7 but immediately took it down. I figure what's the point unless I get an 8. Do you think this logic is correct; are you guys mainly looking at ratings?

              Thanks in advance.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                Jtwg50 says, "...the other fact is that 5,295 of the 5,300 scripts hosted will never go anywhere...Calls to mind the old saying, 'A fool and his money are soon parted'-

                -- This reminds me of a debate I had with an industry person (not any of the pros who are here active now) a few years back about contests.

                He said, "too many writers walk away with nothing, it's a waste of time and money. A better way to generate opportunities than the contests' route would be to move to L.A. Work in the business and develop relationships.-

                This is true. Living in L.A. and working in the industry is a stronger route than contests, but what about the lady aspiring to be a screenwriter raising babies in Wisconsin? Who has a husband that was lucky enough to get a good paying job to pay the mortgage and bills?

                It would be irresponsible for this woman to ask her husband and family to pick up and move for her dream... because you know why? Just like contests, the living and working in L.A. route doesn't have a 100% batting average either.

                Once a writer believes his script is ready for the marketplace, his goal is to generate reads. To find that right person at the right time who believes in him and his script well enough that he'll champion it. No easy task.

                The Black List, just like with contests, queries, schmoozing, etc., is another route available to a writer to travel on to get his material noticed.

                The industry person that I debated with about contests didn't like the odds for success with contests. He received no argument from me about this point. But it's been proven that contests have worked in making something happen for a writer, so I'm not getting off this road.

                As for The Black List, it's too new to say for sure if it's a viable route, especially for those writers living outside of L.A., to make contacts, relationships and opportunities to break in by an industry person using the site to find material.

                There has been mentioned of a couple of successes, which is promising, though keep in mind, The Black List offers an opportunity to open a door and give a writer a shot to impress. It's not the BL's fault if the writer fails for whatever reason.

                What I would like to eventually see is that The Black List becomes to the industry like what the Nicholl's list of finalists and winners has become. A proven source in finding writers with a unique voice and material.

                It's true that in order to get on the list (one way) a writer would have to pay for reads and receive an 8 or higher, but this is understandable. There needs to be a filter, so an industry person knows they're not wasting their time. They know they're looking at the best.

                Sure it would be nice if the industry people review a writer's script, so he could skip the read expense, but this isn't practical. The industry people are too busy to review scripts.

                I haven't traveled on The Black List road yet, but I'm rewriting a script from the feedback that I received. If after the rewrite is completed and it's received positively with reviewers, I'll get on the BL road.

                You never know which route you're gonna meet that one industry person who believes in you and your material.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                  Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                  Jtwg50 says, "...the other fact is that 5,295 of the 5,300 scripts hosted will never go anywhere...Calls to mind the old saying, 'A fool and his money are soon parted'-

                  -- This reminds me of a debate I had with an industry person (not any of the pros who are here active now) a few years back about contests.

                  He said, "too many writers walk away with nothing, it's a waste of time and money. A better way to generate opportunities than the contests' route would be to move to L.A. Work in the business and develop relationships.-

                  This is true. Living in L.A. and working in the industry is a stronger route than contests, but what about the lady aspiring to be a screenwriter raising babies in Wisconsin? Who has a husband that was lucky enough to get a good paying job to pay the mortgage and bills?

                  It would be irresponsible for this woman to ask her husband and family to pick up and move for her dream... because you know why? Just like contests, the living and working in L.A. route doesn't have a 100% batting average either.

                  Once a writer believes his script is ready for the marketplace, his goal is to generate reads. To find that right person at the right time who believes in him and his script well enough that he'll champion it. No easy task.

                  The Black List, just like with contests, queries, schmoozing, etc., is another route available to a writer to travel on to get his material noticed.

                  The industry person that I debated with about contests didn't like the odds for success with contests. He received no argument from me about this point. But it's been proven that contests have worked in making something happen for a writer, so I'm not getting off this road.

                  As for The Black List, it's too new to say for sure if it's a viable route, especially for those writers living outside of L.A., to make contacts, relationships and opportunities to break in by an industry person using the site to find material.

                  There has been mentioned of a couple of successes, which is promising, though keep in mind, The Black List offers an opportunity to open a door and give a writer a shot to impress. It's not the BL's fault if the writer fails for whatever reason.

                  What I would like to eventually see is that The Black List becomes to the industry like what the Nicholl's list of finalists and winners has become. A proven source in finding writers with a unique voice and material.

                  It's true that in order to get on the list (one way) a writer would have to pay for reads and receive an 8 or higher, but this is understandable. There needs to be a filter, so an industry person knows they're not wasting their time. They know they're looking at the best.

                  Sure it would be nice if the industry people review a writer's script, so he could skip the read expense, but this isn't practical. The industry people are too busy to review scripts.

                  I haven't traveled on The Black List road yet, but I'm rewriting a script from the feedback that I received. If after the rewrite is completed and it's received positively with reviewers, I'll get on the BL road.

                  You never know which route you're gonna meet that one industry person who believes in you and your material.
                  Couldn't have said it better myself
                  "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                    First I'd like to congratulate Kremlin and wish him all the success in the world. It doesn't matter, IMO, how you break in, if you've got the chops-- you deserve it.

                    As far as the Black List is concerned, from what I can ascertain, the Black List will most likely assist industry professionals find new talent and new stories. Not a bad deal for them.

                    I didn't realize that they don't pay for that priviledge-- can someone verify that for me? If both ends of the spectrum benefit from the site, then both should be supporting it-- shouldn't they? But that's my opinion and it's not my business model.

                    As a few others have commented, and as a writer, I'm still uncertain how well it'll assist some writers. I uploaded a script and the first day recieved 5 viewings-- then two views a day later, two more a day later.

                    A few days later, I made a change to the title and author and again that day I had another 6 views. The script was on the 'recent' activity list for about a day and a half. Then gone. As were the viewings.

                    It feels akin to adding your script to the public library-- someone will only find it if they're looking for it. If they don't know it's there I'm not sure they'll find it on their own.

                    So the $25 a month/script fee seems steep, now-- just to host it on their site. I mean the reality is that you have to invest probably $100 minimum, to cover two months listing while you wait for the review to come back, hoping someone else will download it and provide a review for free, too. But I'm not so sure how many industry professionals are going to take the time to rate a screenplay for the Black List-- I simply have no idea.

                    I paid for a review and am waiting for the results. There was a download after I paid for the review, so I'm thinking that that download was from the paid reviewer-- can anyone confirm if that is the case?

                    I have another download, but I don't know who downloaded it. It would be appreciated if writers were allowed visibility to who is actually downloading their scripts. Not for contact information, but becasue it's my work and I do feel I have a right to know who is in possession of it.

                    I would be happy to sign a waiver stating that I would not contact said downloader.

                    It seems clear to me, that without paying for the review, your script is basically invisible unless someone is doing a search by genre and happens to make it all the way to the "h" without quiting first. The logline is good. The writing even better; the problem is getting someone to read-- even if it's only first ten pages.

                    Until you receive high reviews this is a waiting game.

                    So, as a writer, I do understand some of the push-back out there. It isn't a conspiracy theory, it's a matter of a writer investing their efforts in ways that yield the highest returns.

                    It's a business.

                    No more.

                    No less.

                    FA4
                    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                      Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                      So the $25 a month/script fee seems steep, now-- just to host it on their site. I mean the reality is that you have to invest probably $100 minimum, to cover two months listing while you wait for the review to come back
                      -- Yes, this aspect about the site, posting the script and waiting for the paid read, is a downside because you know your script sitting among 2,000+ others isn't the best way to stand out and be noticed.

                      If this is all there was, I wouldn't bother with this route.

                      You need a high review rating to stand out and this is why it's neccessary that the reviews should take no longer than 2-3 weeks. This way if it's a poor review you don't have to continue with another paid month.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                        It was Nikke Finke at Deadline.com that first reported that BL had "failed to disclose" that the "discovered" writer had been an intern there.
                        One of the interesting things, to me at least, about Deadline.com is that it regularly generates commentary from actual working screenwriters.
                        Here's what some of them have posted about the new service:

                        "Sucks money from gullible writers. This cheapens BlackList completely."

                        "This sounds less like a way to give access to outsiders and more like a way to make money off the Black List, which everyone knows has become a joke in the last few years including scripts like Prom and Going the Distance…"

                        "The fleecing of gullible writers continues. Shame on you guys. What a foul part of this business."

                        "ANY service that claims it can get you “in” in exchange for your moolah is out to screw you. Getting your script into the right hands is generally 99% luck, but it will never ever cost you money."

                        AND IN CLOSING: "I received an email from The Black List about a half hour before this post by Deadline. Only there were two major differences:
                        The “small monthly fee” was quoted as “probably $10/month.”
                        The “brief evaluations” was quoted as “probably $20 each.”
                        Now if there was a journalist error then this post is in vain (these things do happen). But there exists the possibility that moments before publicly releasing this information, The Black List raised the monthly fee 300% and the evaluations fee by 150%. As an MBA and CEO of a company, this type of price jump is, in my opinion, socially unethical. It leads me to believe that this service exists solely for the profit of the organization behind it and is not meant to help improve the industry in the slightest."

                        Finally, back to my original point: If Franklin Leonard were doing this as a non-profit endeavor for the industry he so loves, I'd think of him as a hero. But since he will make about $1 million in the next year at his current rates, I think of him as just another predator. And a shamelessly greedy one at that.
                        Good scripts find homes and sell without paying anybody to help you. And claiming to help writers "break in" for money has become a huge industry that delivers tiny, tiny actual results. Period.
                        Period.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                          Come on, man. As a lifelong professional journalist, you should know that the Deadline comments section is not a reliable source of information.
                          Chicks Who Script podcast

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                            Originally posted by jtwg50 View Post
                            It was Nikke Finke at Deadline.com that first reported that BL had "failed to disclose" that the "discovered" writer had been an intern there.
                            One of the interesting things, to me at least, about Deadline.com is that it regularly generates commentary from actual working screenwriters.
                            Here's what some of them have posted about the new service:

                            "Sucks money from gullible writers. This cheapens BlackList completely."

                            "This sounds less like a way to give access to outsiders and more like a way to make money off the Black List, which everyone knows has become a joke in the last few years including scripts like Prom and Going the Distance..."

                            "The fleecing of gullible writers continues. Shame on you guys. What a foul part of this business."

                            "ANY service that claims it can get you "in- in exchange for your moolah is out to screw you. Getting your script into the right hands is generally 99% luck, but it will never ever cost you money."

                            AND IN CLOSING: "I received an email from The Black List about a half hour before this post by Deadline. Only there were two major differences:
                            The "small monthly fee- was quoted as "probably $10/month.-
                            The "brief evaluations- was quoted as "probably $20 each.-
                            Now if there was a journalist error then this post is in vain (these things do happen). But there exists the possibility that moments before publicly releasing this information, The Black List raised the monthly fee 300% and the evaluations fee by 150%. As an MBA and CEO of a company, this type of price jump is, in my opinion, socially unethical. It leads me to believe that this service exists solely for the profit of the organization behind it and is not meant to help improve the industry in the slightest."

                            Finally, back to my original point: If Franklin Leonard were doing this as a non-profit endeavor for the industry he so loves, I'd think of him as a hero. But since he will make about $1 million in the next year at his current rates, I think of him as just another predator. And a shamelessly greedy one at that.
                            Good scripts find homes and sell without paying anybody to help you. And claiming to help writers "break in" for money has become a huge industry that delivers tiny, tiny actual results. Period.
                            Period.
                            I have to say, I agree - and am a bit surprised at Craig Mazin (much respect) for jumping on the bandwagon. Did he do so simply because John August did and because they had Franklin as a guest on their podcast at Austin? Or does he finally accept a deal that charges amateurs a bunch of money (it does, honestly - if you do the two reads and pay for, say, 6 months of monthly hosting - wowsers!)

                            Then again, I believe it can work - just like contests can work.

                            The reason I am surprised by Craig Mazin's support is because he always says he does not support all these deals that get the wannabes to pay so much money for something that won't really help them. Well, this won't, if they aren't up to par. So...

                            Please correct me if I am wrong Mr. Mazin.
                            www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                            http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                            http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                            Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                            Want a free book?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                              Originally posted by jtwg50 View Post
                              "ANY service that claims it can get you “in” in exchange for your moolah is out to screw you. Getting your script into the right hands is generally 99% luck, but it will never ever cost you money."
                              Your source is wrong. Nowhere has the BL claimed it can get you "in". Even anyone with a passing interest in the whole she-bang should know this, let alone someone denouncing it as a huge con.

                              Quite simply, and you should know this by now, the BL gets you a read and that information is shared to the industry. If you score highly enough, the industry is alerted (in much the same way as the old-fahsioned "recommendation" that you're no doubt in favour of). A script scores a 9 and it's beamed directly into their inbox - a 21st century equivalent of "hey, you gotta read this script, it's awesome!"

                              And that, along with a query that makes reference to being a Nicholl winner, is what makes a script stand out from the sea of bilge. And only an idiot would disagree with that. If your script is that good, do you want to bombard agents for free and probably not even get read or do you want to drop the cost of a night out and grab them by the short and curlies?
                              M.A.G.A.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Black List - Any Success Stories Yet?

                                Paying anywhere from $25 to $200 for your script, assuming it's good, to get into the right hands faster and more directly seems like a decent service to me. Just my two cents... Paying $1000 for your script to be read by a consultant in the hopes that if he likes it he will will try to market it and also attach himself as a producer is NOT a decent service.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X