Midpoint

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  • #61
    Re: Midpoint

    I was just asking for examples of what Joe was referring to in his script as we haven't read it.

    I'm not looking to check out anything. I was trying to learn what Joe was referring too. I know some movies have big casts -- but often they have same goal.

    I see movies too kids! I'm not new!

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    • #62
      Re: Midpoint

      Originally posted by Bono View Post

      And even if you meant you sent it to working pro writers for free ... don't put more weight on someone's take based on who they are.
      The pro writers were not free.

      The weight that I give is on the note and not the person. If I get a note from a newbie and I feel it'll make my story stronger, I'll implement it.

      For example, the same pro writer who pointed out that my male protagonist's storyline was boring in the first half of the story, which was a great note, also gave me a note to delete my last 13 pages to get my page count down to 110 pages, which I ignored.

      But I get what you're saying. A new writer may be more influenced from a note by a pro writer where he'll implement it even though it wasn't right for the story he wanted to tell, thinking the pro writer should know better than him, the new writer.

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      • #63
        Re: Midpoint

        Joe -- Why did you not agree with deleting last 13 pages? I mean that sounds harsh -- but that's exactly the feedback I would hope a paid reader would give. It sounds like they thought the movie ended 13 pages before you ended it...

        You seem to agree with 110 pages as way to go even if you also try to justify a longer draft. But you do know -- even if it's brilliant -- you're No Name Joe until you sell something and become Joe Somebody who can write longer specs.

        So have you tried it? Like make a duplicate copy of your spec and just take out 13 pages. See what happens. Don't have to use it. But sometimes I just delete a scene and I see if I notice it's missing or a reader that read it before does to test it out. Sometimes I delete 20 pages that aren't working and start again. Can always add it back in.

        Just play with it like a puzzle see what shakes loose.

        You can always go back to old versions.

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        • #64
          Re: Midpoint

          Originally posted by Bono View Post

          Joe -- Why did you not agree with deleting last 13 pages?
          Because it would have been anti-climatic.

          The professional writer suggested ending it where the legislature (post war foreign country) amended the constitution, abolishing slavery. Having a slave revolt to free the American slaves was not the goal of the protagonists.

          Bono, I don't want to sidetrack the thread with my screenplay. If I end up posting a link to the script, then you can get the whole picture.

          I just wanted to point out the personal experience that I had that involved the midpoint.
          Last edited by JoeNYC; 06-11-2020, 09:32 PM.

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          • #65
            Re: Midpoint

            There is no thread on this entire board that stays in one lane.

            With everything I know about your script I'm very interested to discuss with the real life backdrop. Is it perfect for today? My friend has a comedy cop script and it's not going out for a long time now if ever the way things are changing. So his is not perfect for current climate.

            So sure that's not the start of this thread -- but like the MP -- we are spinning this thread into a new direction to keep the reader interested.

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            • #66
              Re: Midpoint

              Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

              Pulp Fiction, if my memory is correct, was written linearly at first and then during the editing process it was rearranged into a non-linear story. It still has structure, even though it is non-linear.
              Link?

              I find that very hard to believe. If it's true, then Tarantino filmed a huge amount of coverage to make it work. Probably many extra scenes as well.

              If you play the scenes in linear manner, the film becomes dramatically inept. Not just in the sense of overall story, but also in the execution of individual scenes.

              It's very possible that an earlier draft of the script was linear, and Tarantino revised it to be non-linear.

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              • #67
                Re: Midpoint

                I think Final Act meant "editing" in script form not movie form.

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                • #68
                  Re: Midpoint

                  Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                  Link?

                  I find that very hard to believe. If it's true, then Tarantino filmed a huge amount of coverage to make it work. Probably many extra scenes as well.

                  If you play the scenes in linear manner, the film becomes dramatically inept. Not just in the sense of overall story, but also in the execution of individual scenes.

                  It's very possible that an earlier draft of the script was linear, and Tarantino revised it to be non-linear.
                  I don't think it was written in a linear manner. Seems it was written in a series of notebooks in a haphazard way, with a typist taking Tarantino's ramblings and cleaning it up in a document. This is a pretty interesting article.

                  https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...n-oral-history

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                  • #69
                    Re: Midpoint

                    I've come to the point in my life where I prefer not to read any more behind the scenes stuff for a famous movie. But if it's for some B level terrible "how did this get made?" movie -- I'm in!

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                    • #70
                      Re: Midpoint

                      Originally posted by Bono View Post
                      I've come to the point in my life where I prefer not to read any more behind the scenes stuff for a famous movie. But if it's for some B level terrible "how did this get made?" movie -- I'm in!
                      One of the best takes on "how was this movie made?" (I've seen) involves a really bad movie and a guy huffing nitrous.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMb7-6eg4Zo

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                      • #71
                        Re: Midpoint

                        Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                        Link?

                        I find that very hard to believe. If it's true, then Tarantino filmed a huge amount of coverage to make it work. Probably many extra scenes as well.

                        If you play the scenes in linear manner, the film becomes dramatically inept. Not just in the sense of overall story, but also in the execution of individual scenes.

                        It's very possible that an earlier draft of the script was linear, and Tarantino revised it to be non-linear.
                        As I recall it was when the film was out and not from anything recent. He would have had to have conceived of the stories linearly at some point for each of the five stories to work and to reorder it. By the name of the title itself, Pulp Fiction, one can assume, I think fairly, that it was always Tarantino's intention to disrupt the story structure in a radical way.

                        Filming is rarely done linearly, and to clarify, I wasn't implying that he filmed it linearly. I remember when it came out there was so much talk about a significant shift that happened in the editing room with the structure. Arguably, it was before I ever was interested in writing films, so I could have misunderstood what they said. I can't go back to then to find an article at the time, that's why I said, "as I recall."

                        I do remember a big hubbabaloo about how the editing made significant changes that contributed to the end re-organization of the final structure.

                        Reading the article lostfootage offered it seems he conceived the idea initially as three stories and each was supposed to write a "story."

                        excerpt:
                        Surrounded by videos, which he watched incessantly, he hit upon an idea for recycling three of the oldest bromides in the book: "The ones you've seen a zillion times-the boxer who's supposed to throw a fight and doesn't, the Mob guy who's supposed to take the boss's wife out for the evening, the two hit men who come and kill these guys.- It would be "an omnibus thing,- a collection of three caper films, similar to stories by such writers as Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett in 1920s and 1930s pulp magazines. "That is why I called it Pulp Fiction,- says Tarantino.

                        He planned to share the writing with his fellow clerk Roger Avary and another friend. Tarantino would write the first story, about the guy who takes out the crime boss's wife. Avary's section centered on the over-the-hill boxer, who double-crosses a crime boss and then ends up rescuing him as he's being anally raped by a hillbilly in a pawnshop.

                        When the third writer didn't materialize, Tarantino had to write that story, too. Working in his mother's house for three and a half weeks, he says, he heard a set of bizarre criminal characters speaking to him. Soon he abandoned his original idea and wrote instead a violent script about a gang of thieves and a bungled diamond heist.
                        It's an interesting article, lostfootage. Thanks for sharing it.

                        Here's another article about the structure of the three stories in Pulp Fiction and how each one hits 5 plot points. I do this same assessment when I write an ensemble piece. I plan each character's story then integrate them into one story.

                        https://thescriptlab.com/features/ma...n-the-madness/
                        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Midpoint

                          Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                          As I recall it was when the film was out and not from anything recent. He would have had to have conceived of the stories linearly at some point for each of the five stories to work and to reorder it. By the name of the title itself, Pulp Fiction, one can assume, I think fairly, that it was always Tarantino's intention to disrupt the story structure in a radical way.

                          Filming is rarely done linearly, and to clarify, I wasn't implying that he filmed it linearly. I remember when it came out there was so much talk about a significant shift that happened in the editing room with the structure. Arguably, it was before I ever was interested in writing films, so I could have misunderstood what they said. I can't go back to then to find an article at the time, that's why I said, "as I recall."

                          I do remember a big hubbabaloo about how the editing made significant changes that contributed to the end re-organization of the final structure.

                          Reading the article lostfootage offered it seems he conceived the idea initially as three stories and each was supposed to write a "story."



                          It's an interesting article, lostfootage. Thanks for sharing it.

                          Here's another article about the structure of the three stories in Pulp Fiction and how each one hits 5 plot points. I do this same assessment when I write an ensemble piece. I plan each character's story then integrate them into one story.

                          https://thescriptlab.com/features/ma...n-the-madness/
                          But none of that states that he re-vised the film in post? The quote talks about the writing process.

                          I've directed, shot and edited for 20 years - It's my profession.

                          You can't revise Pulp Fiction into linear order without extensive coverage and probable extra scenes. And vice versa.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Midpoint

                            Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                            Because it would have been anti-climatic.
                            So, you're saying that removing the last 13 pages of your script would mean it would have no climate, then? Whether or not you know this, the weather has nothing to do with a screenplay unless it has Stormy Daniels in it.
                            “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                            • #74
                              Re: Midpoint

                              Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                              But none of that states that he re-vised the film in post? The quote talks about the writing process.

                              I've directed, shot and edited for 20 years - It's my profession.

                              You can't revise Pulp Fiction into linear order without extensive coverage and probable extra scenes. And vice versa.
                              I did some digging into Pulp Fiction today. It doesn't sound like the structure of Pulp Fiction was heavily reworked in editing. Sounds like he was working with a really good editor who -- edited. This is worth watching.

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqhPWfOxMwA

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Midpoint

                                Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                                But none of that states that he re-vised the film in post? The quote talks about the writing process.

                                I've directed, shot and edited for 20 years - It's my profession.

                                You can't revise Pulp Fiction into linear order without extensive coverage and probable extra scenes. And vice versa.
                                As I said, twice now, I was basing it on a recollection. I also stated that it was before I was interested in writing film, so maybe I misunderstood it at the time in my second post. Did you read that part, or just click on the link? I'm not sure what you expect me to say in response.

                                Um, I didn't say he revised Pulp Fiction into linear order.

                                I remember that there was this talk at the time, about how the editor had come up with a unique (significant) change during the editing process about the structure. Maybe I assumed that meant the overall structure. Perhaps my recollection is wrong. Perhaps I misunderstood all together. Perhaps someone at the time, did say that.

                                The point is, it's a recollection from 20+ years ago. There's no way for me to prove it to you, one way or another.

                                Congratulations on a long and successful career. If you ever want to share that practical experience with a writer very interested in the process, keep me in mind.



                                PE: I'm not trying to be controversial, simply made a statement based on what I recalled.
                                Last edited by finalact4; 06-14-2020, 02:56 PM.
                                "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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