Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

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  • #16
    Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

    Originally posted by TimAucoin View Post
    https://www.scribd.com/document/3864...cript-AnalysisHe decided to attach this formatting analysis from someone else, even though it was for another script. To be honest I'm not really sure why he did that...
    He sent it to you because he couldn't believe what he was told, such as the following passage:

    "You have an incident (we) of it on your first page of script which would cause EVERY reader at a Major studio, EVERY agent, and MOST independent producers to toss it in the trash as soon as they see it, because it indicates there will be OTHER problems which render the script NOT WORTH READING (time is money.)-

    Interesting how he stated "MOST independent producers," thinking there might be some who would be more forgiving than a Major Studio. You know, because independent producer's are mavericks. It's in their nature to be "rule breakers."

    Tim, I know you've said this opinion is from a professional writer, but this is an amateur opinion. This type of advice was going on here at Done Deal years ago and this is why professional writers such as, Lowell, Mazin, Koppelman, etc. stepped in to dispel this advice as nonsense.

    The use, or not use of the "we- word, or phrase "we see- is a personal style and taste choice of each individual writer. Also, with all the "voice- threads its use would be considered part of the writer's voice.

    In order to not send this thread into a wild tangent, I'll refrain from giving my opinion on the phrase "we see.-

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    • #17
      Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

      Originally posted by Bananos View Post
      really?
      "We see" and "Cut to" are not good practice. It doesn't mean you can't use them (but most of us aren't william goldman).

      And it's just advice. You are just shutting down criticism, which isn't constructive at all. Saying this isn't important, only the structure and story is. You are wrong. Simple as that. "Synthesis" is the keyword here. If you can't even appreciate feedback on technicalities(which is fine to disagree with, but not to shut yourself off to), then you won't agree with feedback on structure and story and make excuses up for that too.

      story is not this magical thing that is completely different to format/style.
      It's not a matter of being able to "take advice," it's a matter of whether that advice sucks or not. This particular advice and analysis sucks, it's total crap. It shows that the analyzer has never really worked in the business and, therefore, his advice is a complete waste of time. That's the problem. Not advice in general, but really bad advice given with an authoritative tone. Some people will be gullible enough to fall for it. That's why it's a problem and why it's so irritating to professionals who post here. They know new writers — ones with potential — may have their writing abilities shunted by a moron, know-nothing like this one.
      STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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      • #18
        Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

        I'm shutting down a quack who doesn't know what he's talking about. There's no good reason to indulge frauds like this one.

        ETA

        The obsession with trivial format details is a major tell. Charging an extra fifty bucks to "CORRECT their format faults". Going on about "in-FORMAT" for "Major Studios". Weird capitalization and word usage choices. There are also the grammatical errors that Tim pointed out.

        No one here in LA writes or talks this way. This person has no familiarity with the way that people actually write coverage and give notes. This is a scammer, probably Eastern European if I had to guess. His English is good, but not that of a native speaker who lives and works in Southern California.

        Originally posted by Bananos View Post
        really?
        "We see" and "Cut to" are not good practice. It doesn't mean you can't use them (but most of us aren't william goldman).

        And it's just advice. You are just shutting down criticism, which isn't constructive at all. Saying this isn't important, only the structure and story is. You are wrong. Simple as that. "Synthesis" is the keyword here. If you can't even appreciate feedback on technicalities(which is fine to disagree with, but not to shut yourself off to), then you won't agree with feedback on structure and story and make excuses up for that too.

        story is not this magical thing that is completely different to format/style.
        Last edited by odocoileus; 09-03-2018, 01:48 PM.
        If you really like it you can have the rights
        It could make a million for you overnight

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        • #19
          Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

          Originally posted by Centos View Post
          It's not a matter of being able to "take advice," it's a matter of whether that advice sucks or not. This particular advice and analysis sucks, it's total crap. It shows that the analyzer has never really worked in the business and, therefore, his advice is a complete waste of time. That's the problem. Not advice in general, but really bad advice given with an authoritative tone. Some people will be gullible enough to fall for it. That's why it's a problem and why it's so irritating to professionals who post here. They know new writers - ones with potential - may have their writing abilities shunted by a moron, know-nothing like this one.
          All true.
          If you really like it you can have the rights
          It could make a million for you overnight

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

            Originally posted by Bananos View Post
            "We see" and "Cut to" are not good practice. It doesn't mean you can't use them (but most of us aren't william goldman).
            http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...9&postcount=24

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            • #21
              Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

              Why must you always tempt me, Jeff Lowell?

              I'm still gonna refrain from getting into a "we see" debate, but I suspect Jeff took offense to this comment by Bananos: "most of us aren't William Goldman."

              William Goldman's style was to use a CUT TO between every Master Scene Heading. Bananos is implying that if a non-pro followed this style, they wouldn't be able to get away with it where he's concurring with the screenplay consultant that Tim posted about: "A non-pro's script will be thrown in the trash."

              Jeff's point of the link is to demonstrate that Bananos belief is "crap."

              I've never seen another pro or non-pro use Goldman's style with his use of the "CUT TO," but if a non-pro does use a CUT TO between every scene heading, his script won't be thrown in the trash because of it.

              It will be considered a waste of space, unnecessary, annoying, tedious (giving more words for the reader to read), etc., but no, your script will not be thrown in the trash because of it. If a professional is reading your script, it'll be story that will dictate whether or not your script gets thrown in the trash.

              And don't get me wrong about the use of "CUT TO." There are instances where this transition has a purposeful use. Just not between "EVERY" Master Scene Heading.

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              • #22
                Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                ...William Goldman's style was to use a CUT TO between every Master Scene Heading...
                The 170-page Social Network script I saw also had this. With all his short scenes, it'd only be around 150 pages otherwise. Why'd Sorkin do it? I wasn't concerned or swayed at all, and just assumed it was some default setting in the script formatting software he used, and that he'd forgotten to turn it off.

                I may be wrong, but I just don't care.

                I've been writing for 10.5 years, and realized about two years in that everybody has their own style. It doesn't matter. What matters is (1) writing a great original story (it can then be reformatted to whatever style you prefer) and (2) getting that script out there, somehow, so that it's discovered.

                (And, no, just writing such a script doesn't mean "they will come" and that it will be found)

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                • #23
                  Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                  Originally posted by TimAucoin View Post
                  That's what I thought. It's too bad he's pulled the wool over many an eye on the freelancing site he's on. He has a five star review and thousands of orders. It's a shame.
                  Earth calling Tim - Earth calling Tim - come in Tim - requesting hyperlink to subject's profile - repeat - subject link required - do you copy?
                  Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                  "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                    Why must you always tempt me, Jeff Lowell?

                    I'm still gonna refrain from getting into a "we see" debate, but I suspect Jeff took offense to this comment by Bananos: "most of us aren't William Goldman."
                    I can't speak for Jeff Lowell, but here's part of what the "analyzer" wrote that immediately told me that he was full of crap (and what's written below has nothing to do with Goldman) ... (I left in his mistakes.)

                    For example, the most common OBVIOUS AMATEUR "Format Errors" in a SPECULATION script ( one intended for sale, as opposed to one which the writer will also direct and produce himself ) are easily caught with e CTRL+F Search of these words. looking for CAMERA or GENERAL DIRECTION commands which are FATAL FLAWS and cause an AUTOMATIC PASS for a Major Studio because directors HATE to be told how to shoot a movie and they can't change your script...so, GOOD directors PASS on the project.
                    Besides the fact that the above is pure crap (camera directions do not get instant rejections), it shows total ignorance of the business the analyzer claims to speak authoritatively for. And this guy, who can't even proofread his own boilerplate, is offering to fix his client's format errors for an extra $50.

                    Other obvious tells that he doesn't know what he's talking about (and this is obvious to a wannabe, like me). First his definition of a "speculation" (spec) script as one "intended for sale as opposed to one the writer will direct ..." Really? No. The difference is that a spec script is written "on spec," just like some buildings are built "on spec." In other words the writer (or builder) is "speculating" that he can find a market for his product. He's taking a chance. This analyzer seems totally unaware that most studio scripts are written FOR PAY ("to sell") but on assignment.

                    But the most glaring error is the total BS about how a director will pass because your camera directions will dictate how the script MUST be directed ... because (in this analyzer's imaginary BS world), "...the director can't change the script." What the ... is he talking about? First, it's not the director who'll be reading the spec script for the major studio. But more importantly ... is he so clueless that he doesn't know that there are such things as "shooting scripts" and that they almost NEVER bear a close resemblance to the original spec script?

                    I would say no. The analyzer is full of crap.
                    STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                      It's obvious that this screenplay consultant, whoever he is, promulgated this misinformation in order to scare amateurs into paying him extra bucks to check their formatting.

                      There are hundreds of screenplay consultants. There have been past threads on consultants. There are many excellent consultants that not only help an amateur make their screenplay stronger, but also help them in gaining knowledge in the craft of screenwriting.

                      There are also bad screenplay consultants who are just interested in taking an amateur's money.

                      Just like with any service one should take care to research before committing any money to such person offering said service.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                        OOF FAULT - FATAL ERROR certainly made me sit up and pay attention.

                        Maybe he's just trying his best. Not all heroes wear capes.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                          Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
                          OOF FAULT - FATAL ERROR certainly made me sit up and pay attention.

                          Maybe he's just trying his best. Not all heroes wear capes.
                          Trying his best to take our money!

                          If you really like it you can have the rights
                          It could make a million for you overnight

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                            Writers are touchy. My only point was that it is only advice, and you don't have to agree with it. But what is ridiculous is shutting yourself off from any criticism, as so many does in this thread, by calling the critiquer something negative (he does not know how things are done in hollywood, he's a charlatan , etc). That was my point.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                              Originally posted by Bananos View Post
                              Writers are touchy. My only point was that it is only advice, and you don't have to agree with it. But what is ridiculous is shutting yourself off from any criticism, as so many does in this thread, by calling the critiquer something negative (he does not know how things are done in hollywood, he's a charlatan , etc). That was my point.
                              Bananos, it seems by your continued defense of this consultant -- and your point -- that you are the "touchy" one.

                              The members understood your point that it was only "advice." The members understood that they have the right to not agree with this advice, but at the same time aren't members allowed to give their own opinion/advice without being referred to as "ridiculous" and "negative"?

                              Yes, members accused this consultant as not knowing how things are done in Hollywood, but some of these members are actual professionals participating in everyday Hollywood business, so can't you accept their belief as being fact and not as one being ridiculous and negative?

                              Yes, pros and non-pros are accusing this consulting as being a "charlatan."

                              Normally, this opinion would be perceived as unduly rude and harsh, but under the circumstances, where this consultant advertised that if an amateur used the "we" word, i.e., "we get...," "we see...," "we move...," etc., the Major Studios will give his script an automatic pass, throwing it in the garbage, but for just an extra $50 this consultant will help this writer avoid that horrible outcome.

                              Bananos, doesn't this sound like the "come on" of a charlatan to a naïve amatuer to you?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Claimed Hollywood writer's script formatting notes (are they wrong??)

                                Originally posted by Bananos View Post
                                Writers are touchy. My only point was that it is only advice, and you don't have to agree with it. But what is ridiculous is shutting yourself off from any criticism, as so many does in this thread, by calling the critiquer something negative (he does not know how things are done in hollywood, he's a charlatan , etc). That was my point.
                                That's at least two points and one non sequitur.
                                Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                                "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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