The Two POVs of screenwriting

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

    I'm not throwing shade at anyone. People are throwing shade at me cause I don't have a resume that includes working at a TV network, or an agency, or earning an MFA in writing. So people want to know what gives me the right to charge people for my work. My response is, let's line up all the people with the impressive resumes and let's put my work right next to theirs and see what happens.

    I never read any coverage from TitansCreed, so maybe he's the bomb. I'd be willing to read some feedback from Titan if anybody has any...

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

      I've gotten notes from TitanCreed, as well as notes that came from contests like Austin, and I have to say a lot of the value just comes from an outside set of eyes who can take that "bird's eye view," as you say.

      There's a temptation during rewrites to zero in, to make your focus smaller and smaller and really try to tackle every little weed. At least for me, anyway. I think it feels like progress, while zooming back out and re-outlining feels like taking a step back. But for me, the best improvements come when I stop getting hung up on specific moments and instead take a look at the broader picture. Sure, I usually have to go back and rework more than I wanted to, but that kind of structural foundation work pays off much more than pushing commas around.

      I'm finding this a lot with comedy, in particular. If I'm focused on the jokes, I have a hard time. When I clarify the characters and their motivations, the jokes tend to pop out as well.

      I find a lot of newbie writers, in particular, want to jump straight from the first draft to polishing. Stuff like reworking your wording or punching up specific jokes should come waaaay later in the process than most people want them to.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

        Sorry kids, got to jump in on this. I think I was the first one Cyfress approached. He read my script (which BTW had gotten 7 on The Blacklist) and examined it in a way that I didn't even think about. I thought the script was pretty good the way it is... but he had me look at it in a completely different way... and in way that I really agree with. And I can't wait to get to a computer every night and figure this thing out.

        I've never spoken to him on the phone but we've exchanged e mails almost every day. The guy is brutally honest and let's YOU get inside your character's head.

        Writing is hard... it's really hard. He's honest in the fact that at this point in his life he doesn't have it in him to crank out a script. But he can evaluate other scripts. What's wrong with that ? The guy is brutally honest with us and himself... a lot of people aren't.

        I've gotten notes from other people... and they're just not as deep as the stuff that Cyfress has given me... he knows my story as well as me if not better.

        Like I said, I don't know him... but really respect his opinion after about a month of exchanging e mails.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

          Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
          What I'm doing for people now is a far cry from what I was doing two years ago on a friendly read offer.
          So if I'm reading this correctly, you used to be an amateur reader and now you're a professional?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

            Originally posted by figment View Post
            Not sure if ranking people is a good idea -- writers want different things from coverage, because Writers are different.

            Notes I don't consider to be brutal would crush someone else. Other people want chatty notes, and to be told what to do, how to write, the kind of notes that drive me crazy. You'd have to take both style and content into consideration. It really can't be .
            Great point, figment.

            cyfress, obviously it's fine for you to provide notes in as much detail and at the price point you wish to charge, but it seems that you would be better served by having your customers rave about your work (or whatever), and to steer clear of maligning other fine and capable readers.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

              I was never a reader. I never had any job in the industry ever. All I've done is toil with the craft of screenwriting for 21 years. All self taught from reading, writing, and hanging here for 15 years. Like I said, the one thing I lack is a resume. What I do not lack is the insight. You know a man picks up a thing or two over 21 years. I became real good at realizing how good stories function and what elements need to be present on the page in order for it to work. I can put the big picture of a story together pretty well, and in not that long of time either. I became good at that over the course of time and at this point I'm real f-ing good. I can make writers see stories within their story that are actually the real story that they are failing to address. I did it for Crisscross and I did it for bmpbmp. And you know what they both had the balls to go with me. They saw the promise of the story I brought to their attention. Cause that right there, you never know how that's gonna go. Telling a budding writer that they may as well throw the script away and start over telling this new story. I've tried it before with other writers and let's just say it didn't go so well. Let me tell you something, both those writers are working on projects that are gonna tell compelling stories. I do not want to say what they are or what genre they are, but they are going to move people who read them whether it is to laugh, cry, wince, or get the chills.

              Does my prose need work? It does. Does my dialogue need work? It does. When you read pro scripts, good ones, you can tell they worked through the trains of thought of the characters talking to the tenth degree. Characters are talking to each other in rebuttals. Can I do that? Haven't yet. Do I see it in the scripts I read? Never. I need work on my writing. I do. I know that and see it when I read my stuff.

              But I can put a story together. I know the pieces and where they go on the board and in more than one genre and not just in screenplays in 30 minute and 60 minute TV series. I don't know what to say. I grew up in a neighborhood like you see in A Bronx Tale or Goodfellas or Donnie Brasco. I know a guy who drove the getaway car to a real mob hit. My cousin's boyfriend did a 15 year stretch for operating a big drug ring. You wouldn't figure that one of my fortes would be assembling a coherent, succinct, well thought out treatment for a story, but it is. Don't get me wrong, I did my fair share of drinking out of paper bags and peeing on the street corner too, but those skills have been dormant for a long time.

              Before I started charging, I looked around at a lot of different coverage sites that charged good money and anyone that had samples I read them. Once I saw what they were selling writers as 'future', 'hope', 'direction', I know dam sure teaching young writers how to assemble themselves a kick-ass movie in the development stage is worth something.

              Kidd, I offered to read your script. Remember it opened that whole can of worms where people started attacking me and since having a war of words with people just comes so naturally to me. I mean really, you do not know how many idiots I know that have incredible passion on having the last word, no matter what that word is. Since I'm good at cutting people down, hey that's another skill I can sell maybe. Maybe I should write tweets for Trump. Since it comes so easy for me, if anyone comes right at me for no good reason I'll have my fun pushing their buttons. You passed Kidd on the offer. I can promise you KIdd, if you didn't pass, you'd be there with Crisscross explaining to DD what value I can bring to a young writer.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                Cyfress,

                What I value are humility and good grammar.

                The whole "I'm from New Jersey. I bust balls. It's what we do," thing doesn't cut it for me. When you are posting here, you are in a community of people from all over the world and you need to show a certain amount of tact.

                A guy who writes "persecution-shmersicution" definitely isn't going to get my money, and I probably won't take him up on a free read. You can't save everyone from their bad writing, Cyfress. Sometimes the only way to change the world is to change yourself.

                Good luck with your development services.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                  People, trying not to intervene but please keep it a discussion and not a contest.
                  "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                    Kidd, I have to tell you, I've been on these boards a long, long time and I encountered many, many elitist, grammar junkies. 99% of them can't write a lick. It's not looking good for you, man. But hey, let's not generalize, like insinuate I must be from Jersey, which I'm not. I get it. Saying the 'f' word every other minute ain't your thing. Gotcha. What could a guy who has used the 'f' word more times than you've blinked in your life ever teach you?

                    If you ever make it down to South Philly, not Jersey, PM me. I can assemble a nice crew of guys who could really use your elitist grammar junky services. Who knows? Maybe you'll do them good.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                      I don't really understand why this thread has devolved the way it has.

                      The irony is that the thread is about the big picture, and everyone is getting caught up in the details.

                      My first 3 scripts, I got someone to look at them, got feedback and made revisions in response to that feedback. I put them in contests, and of course, blew a wad on contest feedback as well.

                      Standard themes were not enough conflict, my character isn't challenged enough, but the dialogue and pacing were good. With more work on the story, maybe I'll have something that could go somewhere.

                      Problem is, no one was showing me what I need to do to the story. Back in school to get my degree, took a couple screenwriting courses. Same thing, feedback was always open-ended.

                      I've been trying to think of an analogy to what he does versus the experiences I've had with other's feedback, in the way I see it. Apologies to Cyfress if I represent his development service different from the way he wants it to be portrayed.

                      A lot of you have bought a house in the past. Some of you have used an established builder to build your new home in one of their subdivisions. That's what I did, and I appreciated making so many choices to personalize the home.

                      As with any home, it's wise to get a home inspector to come in before you close on it. They've got their checklist they post on their website, and there's so many of them that you'll always find someone available in two days time. In an hour and a half, they check on everything, the electrical, the roof, the exterior, the appliances, windows, doors, everything.

                      So to my experience. I picked out a nice ranch plan, chose the lot I wanted, and was told it'd take 3-4 months. In the meantime, I went to the decorating center and made choices.

                      Got a call a month later - they did a soil acidity test (or something along those lines, it's been 12 years) on the property, and the result was such that I'd have to formally acknowledge it was a variance from normal. Slightest of chance it could affect the foundation down the road.

                      The foundation is pretty **** important - I'm not messing with that. They agreed to move me to a new lot, and waive the upcharge for it backing up to a park area.

                      The point I'm making is that, once you've written a new script, obviously you want feedback, so you go searching for a "home inspector" of scripts. They give you a report that shows you what works and what needs to be fixed.

                      But with my experience with Cyfress, he's not talking to me about my power outlets, the roofing, or whether or not hot water works in all my faucets. He's focused on the foundation - the composition of the cement slab, whether the walls are level or showing lean, are all the bracing mechanisms rated properly. (I'm not a construction guy, but you get the point.)

                      So yeah, I'm an amateur (or non-published). There are holes in my game that, even though they've been identified, I still can't see them very well, and really don't get how to fix them. And yes, I read books, listened to podcasts, read blogs. Not willing to go the "seminar" route.

                      I quit writing 3 years ago because of the frustration. Last month, decided I'd force myself to finish a script half-written. Thinking about my previous plays, I could sense this one perhaps had some of the same flaws. It did.

                      With Cyfress' help, I'm kinda digging the direction we're going with the rewrite. I've already picked up some sage insight, and it's been 4 days and about 30 emails.

                      Say what you will about grammar, bravado and all that. My mechanic spits and my mail lady smokes, you can smell it on packages. They both do a good job, and those things are easily overlooked if I'm willing.

                      Bottom line, if you can identify with my writing experiences, maybe Cyfress can make a difference. If you haven't, yay, give someone a hug.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                        I know I paid for coverage one time in my life, about two years into my screenwriting journey. Craig Kellum. See this is the problem. The script I sent him is sh!t. Just like most of the stuff I read. Is him telling me up the conflict in the 2nd half really gonna help me? I'm not even sure I knew what he meant cause I was sure I could point to scenes in the middle where I had some nice things going on. I wasn't able to do anything with what he gave. He had no interest in holding my hand as we develop a screenplay concept. He's not allowing me to see his train of thought, or how he builds character, or how he cimplicates a story. He has neither the time nor the desire to do that for me. I was a young, twenty something writer with immature material. Coverage services see it all day, every day. Most writers won't be able to do a single thing with what they get back for the money.

                        If a writer needs their hand held the first time assembling a compelling script idea, I do that for them. And from what I've seen thus far, the two writers I am really sharing my secrets with will never look at screenwriting the same way again. CrissCross and bmp, if that's not true please say so. They were no hacks either. Their scripts they sent me both had nuggets of gold in them that neither saw. I did. I brought it to their attention. They realized it. Now I am helping both develop the gold nugget into a formidable idea. Both have had eye opening moments so far during development. I've been with CrissCross about 2 weeks and bmp just days. Neither will need me before too long. They are both picking it up pretty quick, and neither realized that they really didn't have much of s clue as to how to do it before we started.

                        Writing scripts off of developed material will make your work heads and shoulders better than 99% of the amateur work being flooded into the channels. You'll place in contests, that's for sure.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                          I think it's totally ironic that this thread started off with Cyfress saying that he's got a global POV on screenplays. Sort of reminded me of George Costanza telling Jerry, "I can sense the slightest human suffering." And, of course, "I always wanted to pretend I was an architect," comes to mind, as well.

                          I think a script developer getting positive feedback on the first few scripts he's critiqued can be just as dangerous as an "amateur writer" getting positive feedback on his or her first screenplay. There's no going back.

                          Out of respect for Will and DavidK, I'll bow out of this thread.

                          I really do wish you the best with your development service, Cyfress. Knock 'em dead!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                            Why is it so hard to believe that someone who studies a craft off and on for 20 years knows how to perform parts of that craft very well? George Castanza didn't study architecture for 20 years off and on nor marine biology for that matter. Kidd, you joined these boards months ago, and I can tell you are soaking wet behind the ears, so what makes you so sure your POV is right?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The Two POVs of screenwriting

                              He wished you well for f**k sake.

                              Nobody is here saying anything bad about your notes. This whole tangent only started because cvolante found it ridiculous that reading over 50 scripts in 21 years gives you credibility. Fair point. Aside from that though everyone has spoken positively about your notes.

                              You don't have to trash talk or prove anything. If you want to make a career out of providing feedback then present yourself with a little professionalism. Speak to those already doing it and ask for their advice. This isn't an attack or anything like that at all. Just stop randomly bringing up where you grew up when it has no relevance. Instead, ask your peers for advice about how to get started as a professional reader. Please.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X