Central Dramatic Argument

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

    Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
    I felt the subtext in his mood and the tone of his voice.
    We're talking about the script, right? There's no tone-of-voice in that snippet of dialogue.

    It comes across like he knows he probably should have gone with Holly, but he's bitter that she even asked him to... that she even decided to go.

    It establishes the conflict within their failing marriage. That's the important part.

    Their relationship makes it more than a typical action movie.
    Agreed.

    Comment


    • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

      Originally posted by Manchester View Post
      "Plus they all have guns." I did an actual spit-take on that. Perfect set-up for it. Thanks.

      And I'm still chuckling as I click--

      Chicks Who Script podcast

      Comment


      • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

        Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
        I was mostly joking.

        But now I'm offended and I hope the mods close this thread. It's sh!t.
        Damn, I didn't catch the joke and offended you too. But I know you're joking now. Right? RIGHT? Say you're joking Mr. Dolphin.

        Originally posted by ATB View Post
        We're talking about the script, right? There's no tone-of-voice in that snippet of dialogue.

        It comes across like he knows he probably should have gone with Holly, but he's bitter that she even asked him to... that she even decided to go.

        We are talking about the script. But I thought Willis' reading of the dialogue conveyed the mood and subtext I described. I felt McClean was in a sad reflecrtive mood, like "hey it could have been my fault, I paid too much attention to my job not enough to her needs," from the opening on the plane, through the limo ride, until he met Holly at the building. Maybe that's Willis acting bitter.

        I'd love to hear what CDA, if any, others think the writer used to create this script? I'll definitely shut up now.

        Comment


        • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

          Maybe all that lovey dovey stuff in Die Hard was to make characters we cared about.

          It reminds me of an Interpretation of Fiction class I took once where my instructor insisted I see his version of "the truth". My interpretation of Interpretation of Fiction was that great stories give us a reason to make them great... or they don't.

          It's like that sad song that holds so much meaning when your heart is broken and sounds like sappy bull when it's not.

          For me the theme of Die Hard could be reflected even in it's title. Don't give up. No matter what. Don't ever give up. Because like in all those Roy Rogers movies, the guys in the white hats always win. It's a reverse of "Might makes Right". It's "Right makes Might."

          The love story part gives the required humanity.

          But that's only my interpretation.

          Comment


          • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

            Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
            Maybe all that lovey dovey stuff in Die Hard was to make characters we cared about.

            It reminds me of an Interpretation of Fiction class I took once where my instructor insisted I see his version of "the truth". My interpretation of Interpretation of Fiction was that great stories give us a reason to make them great... or they don't.

            It's like that sad song that holds so much meaning when your heart is broken and sounds like sappy bull when it's not.
            If we weren't writers, this might be all that needs to be said.

            Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
            For me the theme of Die Hard could be reflected even in it's title. Don't give up. No matter what. Don't ever give up. Because like in all those Roy Rogers movies, the guys in the white hats always win. It's a reverse of "Might makes Right". It's "Right makes Might."

            The love story part gives the required humanity.

            But that's only my interpretation.
            Love and determination certainly give a story humanity, and I agree with those that say theme happens whether or not you're conscious of it, but "central dramatic argument" is more articulate and singular to its story. If you aim to write a script with a CDA, give it as much consideration as the action in the writing process.

            Imo, broad theme fuels action, while CDA has a conversation with it.
            Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

            Comment


            • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

              Yeah sarajb. That makes sense. I've never given much thought to defining what a CDA is, but I'm thinking I get the concept.

              Maybe argument is the best word in the name. It sounds more like an ambiguous, moving thing rather than a definable theme. It's the conversation that flows through the story - the various threads that threaten to unravel the theme or tighten it, depending on the pull. So in the Die Hard case it is the case of unselfish love that drives the story and the guilt of having squandered it so carelessly, reinforcing the theme of never give up.

              But unselfish love is a two way street, something Die Hard doesn't answer and doesn't need to. It's the eternal relationship struggle. John and Holly both show the same traits that make them not understand each other while they understand their own motivations quite well. Both are fiercely loyal to their colleagues. John refuses to leave his roots with the NYPD. Holly refuses to sell-out her coworkers. Both have second thoughts about this stubborness, but it's these qualities that prove positive in the end, it's them combined that save many lives.

              Comment


              • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                If it weren't for Holly, McClane, a New York cop, wouldn't have been in that building, in LA, at Christmas time. You remove their relationship there is no McClane, there is no Die Hard.

                How many NYPD cops, out of their jurisdiction in another state, finding themselves alone and unarmed in that specific situation, would fight to the death to protect a private company's bearer bonds?

                Sure, they'd make judgment calls, they'd try to call in local police. But I doubt they'd go the lengths he went with nothing personal on the line except their own life.

                The film falls apart without the McClane's marriage at it's core.
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                Comment


                • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                  .
                  Last edited by Craig Mazin; 02-04-2012, 02:21 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                    My last drip of jizzle on this one...

                    Theme (gack, "CDA") is what a movie is *about*.

                    Come out of DIE HARD feeling, "i've just witnessed an extraordinary argument on the dynamics of personal regret and the sacrifice of reconciliation" then snap.

                    Somehow, this is actually what DIE HARD is *about*. For you.

                    Yet a highly significant dude associated with the production once told me that DIE HARD was literally the "cowboy's journey"... a journey that either culminates in his riding off into his personal "sunset" (whatever it may be) or failing tragically to do so.

                    You see, McClane's "sunset" (aka his specific "goal") happens to be happy reunion with his estranged wife.

                    But a hero's story is ALWAYS ABOUT his journey. NOT the specifics of his goal.

                    Ok. 'nuff said.

                    Bye-bye.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                      If it weren't for Holly, McClane, a New York cop, wouldn't have been in that building, in LA, at Christmas time. You remove their relationship there is no McClane, there is no Die Hard.

                      How many NYPD cops, out of their jurisdiction in another state, finding themselves alone and unarmed in that specific situation, would fight to the death to protect a private company's bearer bonds?

                      Sure, they'd make judgment calls, they'd try to call in local police. But I doubt they'd go the lengths he went with nothing personal on the line except their own life.

                      The film falls apart without the McClane's marriage at it's core.
                      +1.

                      even if the marriage were taken out - say the story was just written as a cop in the wrong place at the wrong time (fabricate any circumstance) - then it would merely be a cop out-of-place and running around blowing sh-t up and annoying terrorists.

                      so what?

                      the mcclane marriage is what makes die hard a good film to watch.
                      Last edited by asjah8; 01-29-2012, 11:34 AM.
                      life happens
                      despite a few cracked pots-
                      and random sunlight

                      Comment


                      • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                        Originally posted by Shari Hari View Post
                        My last drip of jizzle on this one...

                        Theme (gack, "CDA") is what a movie is *about*.

                        Come out of DIE HARD feeling, "i've just witnessed an extraordinary argument on the dynamics of personal regret and the sacrifice of reconciliation" then snap.
                        You realize that we're talking about using CDA to help you craft the story, right? It's not something an audience should be hit over the face with.

                        Most people won't come out of Die Hard having discussions of what the movie was about. They'll probably say how cool it was when McClane killed Hans... but that's okay. Because what they don't know is that the moments they really loved wouldn't have happened without the writer using CDA to weave a compelling, satisfying story.

                        Yet a highly significant dude associated with the production once told me that DIE HARD was literally the "cowboy's journey"... a journey that either culminates in his riding off into his personal "sunset" (whatever it may be) or failing tragically to do so.
                        And now you know why this "highly significant dude associated with the production" is not a writer.

                        No one needs to think about CDA but the writer. So it's not surprising that this Production Dude thinks what audiences think: That's it's just about action.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                          You know -- when you look at the "fabric" of this film you see so many threads running from the McClane's marriage issues into other characters, other scenes. Those who say the marriage could be removed and have the same film (or even consider the marriage incidental to the story) really amazes me.

                          McClane is arrogant -- he believes he's right about their marriage and she's wrong. Holly holds to her "rightness" with a bit of arrogance too. Then you have Holly's arrogant boss who wants to do Holly. Hans is arrogant. The news reporter is arrogant. The police chief who mistakes McClane for a terrorist is arrogant. These characters and plot points don't stand alone -- they're all connected to the McClane marital issues.

                          Like ATB says above -- without the marriage driving the "argument" you have a film where stuff blows up and a generic hero goes crashing through windows. Just a lot of senseless eye candy action.
                          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                          Comment


                          • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                            If you don't mind me pulling us away from Die Hard for a moment, I think a great movie to study that uses a specific statement or argument to steep the plot in is The Breakfast Club, because John Hughes tells you at the very beginning exactly what it's about and emphasizes it at the end.

                            Opening Bowie quote:

                            "And these children that you spit on as they try to change their worlds are immune to your consultations. They're quite aware of what they're going through."

                            Ending voice over:

                            Dear Mr. Vernon,

                            We accept the fact that we had to sacrifice a whole Saturday in detention for whatever it is that we did wrong. But we think you're crazy to make us write an essay telling you who we think we are. You see us as you want to see us: in the simplest terms and in the most convenient definitions.... But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain. And an athlete. And a basket case. A princess. And a criminal. Does that answer your question?

                            Sincerely yours,
                            The Breakfast Club.

                            After I saw TBC for the first time, I made several promises to my future children.
                            Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                              Originally posted by sarajb View Post
                              If you don't mind me pulling us away from Die Hard for a moment, I think a great movie to study that uses a specific statement or argument to steep the plot in is The Breakfast Club, because John Hughes tells you at the very beginning exactly what it's about and emphasizes it at the end.

                              Opening Bowie quote:

                              "And these children that you spit on as they try to change their worlds are immune to your consultations. They're quite aware of what they're going through."

                              Ending voice over:

                              Dear Mr. Vernon,

                              We accept the fact that we had to sacrifice a whole Saturday in detention for whatever it is that we did wrong. But we think you're crazy to make us write an essay telling you who we think we are. You see us as you want to see us: in the simplest terms and in the most convenient definitions.... But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain. And an athlete. And a basket case. A princess. And a criminal. Does that answer your question?

                              Sincerely yours,
                              The Breakfast Club.

                              After I saw TBC for the first time, I made several promises to my future children.
                              Great example.

                              But now we're about to have people comparing TBC with Die Hard and saying how TBC is a "message movie" and Die Hard isn't and blah blah blah.

                              Can that be avoided? I hope so.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                                Good example, Sara.

                                It's one of those quotes that has always stuck with me, when Ally Sheedy says "When you get old your heart just dies."

                                And one of them - which one was it? - goes "Not me, ever."

                                Not me, man.
                                Last edited by emily blake; 01-29-2012, 02:08 PM.
                                Chicks Who Script podcast

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X