Bluecat - Another complaint

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  • #16
    Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

    I would complain about forty dollars, thats a day work for some people. Next time dont enter contests run by people who dont know how to do business.

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    • #17
      Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

      Originally posted by stainjm View Post
      - The situation: I received good feedback, but the one complaint by the reader was that my main character asks another character if they were dead three times, saying I used the phrase 'you weren't dead, were you?'
      In that specific part of the notes, did the reader mention that main char's name?

      If not, I wonder if maybe he/she was using a review for another script - kinda like a template - and left in a sentence or two from that other review.

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      • #18
        Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

        - The situation: I received good feedback, but the one complaint by the reader was that my main character asks another character if they were dead three times, saying I used the phrase 'you weren't dead, were you?'

        - The reality: I never said that or meant to. So I searched the script, and that never appears, and the word 'dead' never appears. So I emailed Bluecat to clarify, and their response was 'It is the author's responsibility to be clear, not the readers.'
        No one says anything remotely resembling this, or nobody says it in the exact words quoted by the reviewer?
        Patrick Sweeney

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        • #19
          Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

          Originally posted by Patrick Sweeney View Post
          No one says anything remotely resembling this, or nobody says it in the exact words quoted by the reviewer?
          That was my concern as well.

          Suppose I write a fish-out-of-water script about an inner city youth who gets sent to an elite private high school. Remarking on his dress and demeanor, one student says "Heh. When there's no more room in Compton, the gangstas will roam the earth." Another student says, "Oh, is that your formalwear hoodie?" etc.

          If I pile this sort of thing on too thick, a reviewer might well say something like, "three times in the first act, the other students tell him, 'you don't belong here'," even if I don't use that specific phrase.

          So the question is, what is the exact wording in the coverage?

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          • #20
            Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

            Why wasn't my gas station coffee delicious?!?!

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            • #21
              Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
              Why wasn't my gas station coffee delicious?!?!
              I hope you don't mind, but next time someone asks me what subtext is, I'm going to use this.

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              • #22
                Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                Originally posted by stainjm View Post
                Would other contests go back and clarify this with the reader? I had an issue with Fresh Voices once, and they went back and fixed it. Can't I expect the same with Bluecat? Apparently not.
                Most would not. Too much admin. For one person, it's no problem but they would likely receive quite a few complaints. And some entrants cannot be satisfied - just look at the unhappy comments on the Nicholl FB page after the QF cut - and the Nicholl is the best run contest of the lot. Top marks to Fresh Voices though.

                Blue Cat feedback can be very hit and miss. I have received some good comments from them, and some terrible (and inaccurate) comments.

                The Nicholl fellowship winner for Cutter gave his Blue Cat reader great praise - said their feedback helped him win his fellowship.

                Ask someone else regarding the feedback. Give them your script. If they agree with the part at issue then fix it.

                It's difficult for most writers to be objective regarding their work - we all like to think our screenplay is great, meanings clear etc.

                And as Greg always says, screenplay judging is inherently subjective. That goes for your feedback too.

                Plus our life experience etc colors how we write and read. So too our assumptions.

                Blue Cat feedback is very very cheap ($60 for features, $40 for shorts), and you get two (!!!) feedback 'reports' per entrance fee which is good value but quality-wise - as I said, it's very hit and miss. But you did say the rest of the feedback was good so I would just have let this issue go.
                Last edited by Presto; 08-10-2013, 11:34 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                  I've judged for a contest - not Bluecat - and I have to say, look, yes, a lot of times working as a reader you're really only getting paid enough to spend an hour or so on a script - maybe a little more if it's a good one, so you power through the bad ones as quickly as you can while still doing your job fairly. Understand that the industry standard rate for coverage 2-4x as much as most contests pay (although they do demand a synopsis, which requires the most time) - so you're spending 2-3 hours on it in those circumstances.

                  But understand that a reader reading for a contest is in a terrible position to give you feedback - because they've got a stack of scripts, most of which are awful. That is not a situation which is conducive to the reflection which good feedback requires.

                  As a point of reference, however, before people attack this contest (which I am not affiliated with) I will share an experience of mine. I was leaked the internal coverage of a script (the script that would get me rep and my first writing job) from CAA.

                  The coverage was scathing, which hurt but whatever, I didn't expect everyone to love the script. But the analyst got a huge number of factual things wrong. "The character never explains this ..." No, it's right there on p22. "The story really needs that." You mean that thing that happens on pages 55-57? "One question that's never answered is blah," oh, you mean the thing that we have a page-long monolog answering?

                  What happened here? How can a professional analyst screw up this badly?

                  Simple. The script didn't work for him, and he checked out. He was skimming because he already knew that it was a "pass."

                  And if you think that's terrible, well, read 20 scripts a week for a few weeks, and see how you do.

                  I think any contest that offers feedback is going to run into this problem full speed, and I think it's unavoidable. Because the reality is that 99% of feedback from any analyst on a script they don't like is, "I didn't like it, let me take a stab as to why."

                  But figuring out why a script doesn't work is hard. There's a reason why top writers and top producers get paid a ton of money. Expecting brilliance from someone who's being paid enough to spend - maybe - 10 minutes thinking about what to write is a fool's errand.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                    My philosophy:

                    If the feedback gives you anything at all, don't complain. It's all just a crapshoot. You can hope for spectacular advice, but often you will come up with nothing. In the end, anything at all that improves your script is good. But don't expect the world.
                    . "Audiences don't know somebody sits down and writes a picture. They think the actors make it up as they go along.-
                    Joe Gillis, Sunset Boulevard, 1950

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                    • #25
                      Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                      Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post

                      What happened here? How can a professional analyst screw up this badly?

                      Simple. The script didn't work for him, and he checked out. He was skimming because he already knew that it was a "pass."
                      Great post. Especially those lines ^^^^. Makes complete sense.

                      And thanks for sharing the personal anecdote.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                        Originally posted by justin View Post
                        Seems quite a spectacular tantrum to be throwing because you didn't like one comment in a piece of coverage that came free with a $40 competition entry. I've had completely useless coverage that cost over $400.

                        I've had 18 pieces of coverage from Bluecat so far. All 18 proved that my script had been read in full, and 16 gave notes that helped me improve my script. The couple that didn't had lots of positive things to say, and these would probably have been helpful as well if the scripts hadn't been re-submissions. Given how little you paid, I think it's unreasonable to expect Bluecat to enter into a debate just because there was something in it you don't agree - as opposed to something malicious or offensive.
                        Sounds like you're lucky. I've had 5 and 3/5 have had the same/similar issues. I would just expect them to stand up to the standard of other contests.
                        www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                        http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                        http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                        Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                        Want a free book?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                          Originally posted by JoeGillis View Post
                          My philosophy:

                          If the feedback gives you anything at all, don't complain. It's all just a crapshoot. You can hope for spectacular advice, but often you will come up with nothing. In the end, anything at all that improves your script is good. But don't expect the world.
                          Yeah, it's nice. But doesn't it bother you to know that your script is being judged this way? Maybe it could be fore the better in some cases, but it's scary for people that like the idea of contests.
                          www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                          http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                          http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                          Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                          Want a free book?

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                          • #28
                            Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                            Originally posted by Patrick Sweeney View Post
                            No one says anything remotely resembling this, or nobody says it in the exact words quoted by the reviewer?
                            Not that we could figure (I gave it to a couple of my beta readers - they were also confused about what the feedback was referring to. But I don't need to enter into any debates or anything, as I said, I've had very similar experiences with Bluecat in the past. I just figured I would give it another shot two years later, and learned my lesson/ wanted to share it).
                            www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                            http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                            http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                            Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                            Want a free book?

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                            • #29
                              Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                              Originally posted by stainjm View Post
                              Not that we could figure (I gave it to a couple of my beta readers - they were also confused about what the feedback was referring to. But I don't need to enter into any debates or anything, as I said, I've had very similar experiences with Bluecat in the past. I just figured I would give it another shot two years later, and learned my lesson/ wanted to share it).
                              I appreciate the sharing. I also appreciate the arguments about other contests that I read on this site. It helps me to know what to expect from contests and feedback and what not to expect. It's always better to enter a situation with realistic expectations.

                              As for my only experience with getting feedback from a contest, it came from two judges, they were the sorts of critiques I would have expected from students in a high school writing class, and they contradicted each other. I guess I'm with the "you get what you pay for" crowd.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Bluecat - Another complaint

                                I entered Bluecat once, a couple years ago, I think. Got my "feedback". One loved it, the other hated it. And neither set of notes helped me out.

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