The Lone Ranger

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  • #16
    Re: The Lone Ranger

    Originally posted by Madbandit View Post
    Boosting Tonto's profile might be troublesome, but, due to Johnny Depp being an Oscar nominee and making the character less of an racial stereotype and more of an equal partner, it was a smart move (I actually met a guy who worked on the film as a PA while I was an extras on a now-canned TV show).
    Sidekicks are always problematic in quasi-vigilante stories such as these. The very name of the character, "The Lone Ranger," suggests singularity, isolation, "one man against the world." Create a pair, and it lessens the uniqueness, the mystery.

    One of the best things that DC, Burton and, later, Nolan did for the Batman character was pushing Robin out of the picture and focussing on the Batman as a solo force. Then again, Robin was a later addition to a character that had, in his earliest comic-book appearances, worked alone, while I believe that Tonto has been part of the Lone Ranger storyline from his inception.

    Still, my own impulse would have been to tell a Lone Ranger story focussing on the character on his own, in the first film, bringing in Tonto perhaps only at the end. If a sequel were made, then there would have been ample time to develop the Tonto character.

    Well, we'll see how this version turns out.

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    • #17
      Re: The Lone Ranger

      Not doing so well on RT -- 24% so far.

      http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lone_ranger/

      Some of the reviews pointed out what I've found troublemsome with modern blockbusters (including At World's End). There's so many epic action sequences/battles involving characters/stories which no one could care less about. Most likely because they've been so poorly developed.

      I think this is why some of the greatest blockbusters of all time took so much time building the story world and protagonist before the climactic battle.

      The death star trench run wouldn't have felt so epic if Taylor Kitsch's John Carter charcater was in the pilot seat instead of Luke.
      I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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      • #18
        The Lone Ranger

        Originally posted by billmarq View Post
        For me, Clayton Moore will always be the real Lone Ranger, though.

        ...more than mediocrity.
        http://archive.org/details/EnterTheLoneRanger (1949)
        JEKYLL & CANADA (free .mp4 download @ Vimeo.com)

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        • #19
          Re: The Lone Ranger

          Originally posted by karsten View Post
          Sidekicks are always problematic in quasi-vigilante stories such as these. The very name of the character, "The Lone Ranger," suggests singularity, isolation, "one man against the world." Create a pair, and it lessens the uniqueness, the mystery.

          One of the best things that DC, Burton and, later, Nolan did for the Batman character was pushing Robin out of the picture and focussing on the Batman as a solo force. Then again, Robin was a later addition to a character that had, in his earliest comic-book appearances, worked alone, while I believe that Tonto has been part of the Lone Ranger storyline from his inception.

          Still, my own impulse would have been to tell a Lone Ranger story focussing on the character on his own, in the first film, bringing in Tonto perhaps only at the end. If a sequel were made, then there would have been ample time to develop the Tonto character.

          Well, we'll see how this version turns out.
          A "Lone Ranger" film without Tonto? Aside from his brother's death, why would John Reid become the hero?
          "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

          "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

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          • #20
            Re: The Lone Ranger

            Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
            Not doing so well on RT -- 24% so far.

            http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lone_ranger/

            Some of the reviews pointed out what I've found troublemsome with modern blockbusters (including At World's End). There's so many epic action sequences/battles involving characters/stories which no one could care less about. Most likely because they've been so poorly developed.

            I think this is why some of the greatest blockbusters of all time took so much time building the story world and protagonist before the climactic battle.

            The death star trench run wouldn't have felt so epic if Taylor Kitsch's John Carter charcater was in the pilot seat instead of Luke.
            I rewatched X-Men 2 last night, and was surprised to find that the home invasion sequence didn't show up until 35 or so minutes into the movie, and it's the first action scene not counting the opening with Nightcrawler.

            That's over half an hour of building character and setting and tone and story - and nobody cares that it took that long. Never heard such a complaint in the 10 years the movie has been out.

            Spider-Man 2 is the same. You start with the pizza delivery, and the next action scene after that is the brief moment when Otto's experiment goes awry, which is definitely over half an hour later. Nobody cares. They were too busy enjoying the characters and the story.

            I don't think audiences are as dumb as they're being treated.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The Lone Ranger

              Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
              I rewatched X-Men 2 last night, and was surprised to find that the home invasion sequence didn't show up until 35 or so minutes into the movie, and it's the first action scene not counting the opening with Nightcrawler.

              That's over half an hour of building character and setting and tone and story - and nobody cares that it took that long. Never heard such a complaint in the 10 years the movie has been out.

              Spider-Man 2 is the same. You start with the pizza delivery, and the next action scene after that is the brief moment when Otto's experiment goes awry, which is definitely over half an hour later. Nobody cares. They were too busy enjoying the characters and the story.

              I don't think audiences are as dumb as they're being treated.
              For once I agree with you Bio. Studios need to let character and world building take place in their tent poles. Lord of The Rings is the perfect example of it. Let us get invested in the world and characters.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The Lone Ranger

                Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                I rewatched X-Men 2 last night, and was surprised to find that the home invasion sequence didn't show up until 35 or so minutes into the movie, and it's the first action scene not counting the opening with Nightcrawler.

                That's over half an hour of building character and setting and tone and story - and nobody cares that it took that long. Never heard such a complaint in the 10 years the movie has been out.

                Spider-Man 2 is the same. You start with the pizza delivery, and the next action scene after that is the brief moment when Otto's experiment goes awry, which is definitely over half an hour later. Nobody cares. They were too busy enjoying the characters and the story.

                I don't think audiences are as dumb as they're being treated.
                Agreed. Consider the huge success of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", which not only saved the first action sequence until something like 20-30 minutes in, but wasn't even in english.

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                • #23
                  Re: The Lone Ranger

                  Originally posted by MoonHill View Post
                  Agreed. Consider the huge success of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", which not only saved the first action sequence until something like 20-30 minutes in, but wasn't even in english.
                  Keep in mind there was a burst of action in the beginning, like the other examples cited. Same goes for well-structured horror films (think SCREAM) and musicals (think SINGIN' IN THE RAIN). Give a burst of action or violence or music at the start, and the audience will trust that there's more to come.

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Lone Ranger

                    I just saw Lone Ranger. Overall, it was entertaining. Would I watch it again? Only for social reasons. The most exciting aspect of the film is the soundtrack. It pretty much is "Pirates in the Dessert"...but wasn't that "At World's End"???

                    MINOR SPOILER: The story for me was derivative. The structure was straight up "Princess Bride" with the "mostly dead" part at the beginning. There are action shots from "Back to the Future III" and "Two Towers". The epic battles all involved the same 4 guys trying to kill each other over and over again. Same shoot outs, different piles of debris. BTW, the gun in a fake leg gag is cliche -- Piranha 3DD, Grindhouse, and Darkman to name a few.

                    So what's worth watching? The scenery for one. The location shots look great. The movie is definitely worth listening to -- I'm buying the soundtrack for sure. I'll give Ted, Terry, and Justin credit. They do know how to throw in the one-liners, e.g. my favorite "There is something very wrong with that horse."

                    Yes -- this is a Depp vehicle with the Lone Ranger in tow, but all heroes have an origin story. Tonto is Tonto throughout but it takes more than a mask to make John Reid the Lone Ranger.


                    rum

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Lone Ranger

                      Originally posted by Madbandit View Post
                      Boosting Tonto's profile might be troublesome, but, due to Johnny Depp being an Oscar nominee and making the character less of an racial stereotype and more of an equal partner, it was a smart move (I actually met a guy who worked on the film as a PA while I was an extra on a now-canned TV show).
                      I think this is a colossal mistake. It diminishes the character in the name of concerns that are outside the sphere of entertaining narrative, and I'm not surprised that it doesn't lead to an "equal partnership" at all, but to this:

                      Originally posted by rumely View Post
                      Yes -- this is a Depp vehicle with the Lone Ranger in tow
                      It's the difference between a "Batman and Robin" movie (let alone a "Robin and Batman" movie, which is what this appears to be), and a movie about "The Batman" or "The Dark Knight." IMO, it's the latter that audiences want to see.

                      Perhaps I'm wrong -- perhaps this film will make a boatload of money, just on the strength of the Lone Ranger brand and the idea that this is POTC on horseback. But I think that especially in an origin story, establishing the awesomeness of the title character, rather than relegating him to sidekick status to his one-time sidekick, is the better approach, especially when you're dealing with such an iconic character.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The Lone Ranger

                        Originally posted by karsten View Post
                        I think this is a colossal mistake. It diminishes the character in the name of concerns that are outside the sphere of entertaining narrative, and I'm not surprised that it doesn't lead to an "equal partnership" at all, but to this:


                        It's the difference between a "Batman and Robin" movie (let alone a "Robin and Batman" movie, which is what this appears to be), and a movie about "The Batman" or "The Dark Knight." IMO, it's the latter that audiences want to see.

                        Perhaps I'm wrong -- perhaps this film will make a boatload of money, just on the strength of the Lone Ranger brand and the idea that this is POTC on horseback. But I think that especially in an origin story, establishing the awesomeness of the title character, rather than relegating him to sidekick status to his one-time sidekick, is the better approach, especially when you're dealing with such an iconic character.

                        I agree with you in terms of how the character's presented to the public. It's just that Arnie Hammer, aside from being in "The Social Network", "J. Edgar", "Mirror, Mirror" and some eps of the second season of "Reaper" and an "Arrested Development" ep, he's not a A-name actor (the film might make or break his career, though he's part of a baking soda empire). Depp gets top billing with his Oscar-nomination and his record with the four "Pirates" films.
                        "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

                        "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The Lone Ranger

                          Originally posted by rumely View Post
                          MINOR SPOILER: The story for me was derivative. The structure was straight up "Princess Bride" with the "mostly dead" part at the beginning. There are action shots from "Back to the Future III" and "Two Towers". The epic battles all involved the same 4 guys trying to kill each other over and over again. Same shoot outs, different piles of debris. BTW, the gun in a fake leg gag is cliche -- Piranha 3DD, Grindhouse, and Darkman to name a few.

                          rum
                          You just sold it to me! If they put princess bride and back to the future on the posters, I would have been sold from the beginning!
                          www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

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                          • #28
                            Re: The Lone Ranger

                            I'm glad I could help. I'm not saying it's a bad film. It's enjoyable. But, I don't think it has staying power to recoup $250 mil + advertising.

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                            • #29
                              Re: The Lone Ranger

                              Anyone think the tentpole gazillion dollar investments are unsustainable?
                              M.A.G.A.

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                              • #30
                                Re: The Lone Ranger

                                Just saw this movie. To echo an earlier comment, it is a truly entertaining film that had a mixed age audience laughing frequently. I am sure someone will pop in with a comment about revisionist history and all of that malarkey, but even we hard core Lone Ranger fans can enjoy this one(you do know I have a complete LR outfit copied from the Clayton Moore character, don't you?).

                                It is a different Lone Ranger than we are familiar with. His catharsis comes very late in the story and frankly, at the end I was saying to myself, "Okay, now he is the Lone Ranger. What is he going to do next?" Given the budget, I doubt there will be a sequel, but dammit I want one where Armie's character becomes the hero we know. In spite of that, I am very happy I went to see this film. As you can guess, Depp was very good, and we were given the backstory into the craziness of his character.

                                I was a little disappointed in some of the cinemetography, to be honest, but much of the scenery was indeed fantastic.
                                We're making a movie here, not a film! - Kit Ramsey

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