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Old 06-24-2008, 12:14 AM   #31
Terrance Mulloy
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Default Re: Hero Hybrid Structure Outline

EJ, as always, much appreciated.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: Hero Hybrid Structure Outline

Refusal of CATALYST: If the catalyst is strong enough for the "hero" (personal), why refuse it? Never fully understood the (function of the) "refusal of the call/catalyst". Why does someone has to motivate our hero to deal with what the catalyst has already shown him/her to be right? It's just a show-stopper... What's the purpose?

/H
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:14 PM   #33
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Default Re: Hero Hybrid Structure Outline

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Originally Posted by Zarakow View Post
Refusal of CATALYST: If the catalyst is strong enough for the "hero" (personal), why refuse it? Never fully understood the (function of the) "refusal of the call/catalyst". Why does someone has to motivate our hero to deal with what the catalyst has already shown him/her to be right? It's just a show-stopper... What's the purpose?

/H
To answer your question, I refer you to the Unknown Screenwriter's post called The Protagonist's call to action dilemma. Unk knows what he's talking about.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Hero Hybrid Structure Outline

Just looking at the 12 pages I've touched up today: I state the beginnings of the theme on the first page. It's all visual. On page 10, the theme is established, again, all visual. We know what she misses and what she wants without the protag ever mentioning it. Perhaps around page 3-4 I could feature the middle act (bridging) of the theme?
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: Hero Hybrid Structure Outline

Yeah, I've always been a little confused about the "refusal" thing.

Could someone list a few movies that have obvious ones. I guess STAR WARS has a few lines where Luke doubts his "destiny" of whatever...

I'm just not sure how important this point is or how many movies really emphasize it.

And is it really needed??

OPINIONS?...

Thanks.

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Old 07-10-2008, 02:36 AM   #36
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Yeah, I've always been a little confused about the "refusal" thing.


They refuse the call because there's something in their backstory maybe...some kinda fear that haunts them for the whole movie...that prevents them from saying "yes" right away. If there's something in their psyche that makes it hard for them to say yes then it should haunt them the whole movie stirring up internal conflict while they're doing their thing.

It's like in every cop movie, the hero's partner is killed and he takes on the blame so when his boss calls upon him to catch a serial killer, he can;t do it because he fears he'll **** up again and kill a good guy. Then something happens that makes it really personal and he has no choice but to join the hunt for the killer. But he's still haunted by the guilt of his dead partner and that causes conflict for him during the movie and by the end he probably works it out, overcomes the fear (by overcoming some big obstacles) and he kills the killer.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:56 AM   #37
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They refuse the call because there's something in their backstory maybe...some kinda fear that haunts them for the whole movie...that prevents them from saying "yes" right away. If there's something in their psyche that makes it hard for them to say yes then it should haunt them the whole movie stirring up internal conflict while they're doing their thing.

It's like in every cop movie, the hero's partner is killed and he takes on the blame so when his boss calls upon him to catch a serial killer, he can;t do it because he fears he'll **** up again and kill a good guy. Then something happens that makes it really personal and he has no choice but to join the hunt for the killer. But he's still haunted by the guilt of his dead partner and that causes conflict for him during the movie and by the end he probably works it out, overcomes the fear (by overcoming some big obstacles) and he kills the killer.
Right right... I see what you're saying.

But I usually just think of this as layers in the char, stuff that makes the char more human, not really as a "point" in the plot. It's something that's weaved thru the story or part of the char's personality.

It seems the refusal is often presented or defined in some books and templates as a point or moment in the story that's dealt with, & then the story moves on, never to deal with it again.

Maybe that's where I'm getting confused.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:09 AM   #38
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Nearly all heroes refuse at first. It takes some pushing to get them started into the second act. Off the top of my head, Miss Congeniality or whatever it was called with Sandra Bullock. They need a FBI female to go undercover at the pageant. They don't have anyone suitable other than Sandra. They ask her, she says "no way in hell" or something like that. She and her mentor friend fight on the wrestling mat, him trying to get to do it, her not wanting to. At the end of the fight, she finally agrees.

That's typical of most movies. They don't want to do it at first, and if they did, the story would suffer for it. You can't have them happily accept this huge mission ahead of them.

CAPTAIN: Jones, I need you to quit your job, shave your head, and go after the deadly assasin. You will surely die on this mission.

JONES: Sure, no problem, Captain.

That's a sucky story. The guy should refuse. No way in hell is he doing that. Then his wife is kidnapped, or his child. That's when he decides to take the mission.

Hope that helps.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:10 AM   #39
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then the story moves on, never to deal with it again.

Well, that's the way the Unknown Screenwriter blog makes it sound...but I'd disagree with that...I think it has to be more than just the character's pee pee hurting...although I might refuse a call if my pee pee hurt...but I think it's something deeper, painful and more frightening that forces the hero to refuse the call...The call is supposed to put the hero on a path to the thing he fears the most so it only makes sense that he'd refuse to answer the call.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:27 AM   #40
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Exclamation Re: Hero Hybrid Structure Outline

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Originally Posted by razerfish View Post
Nearly all heroes refuse at first. It takes some pushing to get them started into the second act. Off the top of my head, Miss Congeniality or whatever it was called with Sandra Bullock. They need a FBI female to go undercover at the pageant. They don't have anyone suitable other than Sandra. They ask her, she says "no way in hell" or something like that. She and her mentor friend fight on the wrestling mat, him trying to get to do it, her not wanting to. At the end of the fight, she finally agrees.

That's typical of most movies. They don't want to do it at first, and if they did, the story would suffer for it. You can't have them happily accept this huge mission ahead of them.

CAPTAIN: Jones, I need you to quit your job, shave your head, and go after the deadly assasin. You will surely die on this mission.

JONES: Sure, no problem, Captain.

That's a sucky story. The guy should refuse. No way in hell is he doing that. Then his wife is kidnapped, or his child. That's when he decides to take the mission.

Hope that helps.
It really depends on the story. A hero can accept the mission, then realises that there are consequences for his/her actions. Somewhere around page 60, the hero realises that it was his fault, he shouldn't have accepted the mission - the low point.
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