And the Oscar goes to...

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  • #46
    Re: And the Oscar goes to...

    that's exactly the way i heard it too. strange the way it came out. i wouldn't have wanted to be one of the white guys. lol!

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    • #47
      Re: And the Oscar goes to...

      Originally posted by Ravenlocks View Post
      I cringed too, but for a different reason: I hated how Streisand phrased this. To me it sounded like she was saying the nominees consisted of one woman, one African-American, and three directors with vision. As if the woman and the African-American got nommed because of their gender or skin color, not their vision...

      I know she didn't mean it that way, but that's how it came off sounding, to me at least.
      Actually, Rave -- this was a part of the reason I cringed too. Thanks for articulating far better than I could.
      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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      • #48
        Re: And the Oscar goes to...

        Winning an Oscar is rare, period. There have been what, 82 people since the beginning of filmmaking that have won an Oscar for best director?

        It's rare whether you're a man or a woman or black or white or some other shade in all the colors in all the rainbows of all the worlds. Gimme a break.

        Is it nice to see "minorities" get some attention? Absolutely. But Oscar winners are all "minorities" compared to the hundreds of thousands of artists desperately clamoring at the castle gates.

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        • #49
          Re: And the Oscar goes to...

          There have been what, 82 people since the beginning of filmmaking that have won an Oscar for best director?
          and the first 81 have all been white men.
          the 44th president was the first minority... and no women yet. but, it looks like the odds are better for minorities to run president.

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          • #50
            Re: And the Oscar goes to...

            Originally posted by nathanq
            The idea of a woman winning an oscar for best director as being a "break through" is just plain idiotic. The reason there haven't been any in the past is because there have been very few excellent films directed by women. That has nothing to do with society, that has something to do with the talent of the women directors. Simple as that.

            If Kubrick had a vagina that would be different, but the reason there aren't any women autuers who are in the top tier with some other directors is because they just haven't performed. Nothing else. Sofia Coppolla has promise, but she's just not quite there yet. Whereas Kathryn Biegelow has been making highly mediocre films for quite some time from other people's screenplays, having no creative input then finally makes a "indie" oscar bait film. It sounds like another case of the oscars trying to grab a headline at the risk of the integrity of the art form.
            So, because it has nothing to do with society, do you chalk it up to coincidence or genetics?

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            • #51
              Re: And the Oscar goes to...

              Originally posted by nathanq
              Maybe you're onto something there...


              But seriously, I suppose this whole argument end up going towards the male and female brain differences and how the vast majority of great artists in history have been men. It's not really coincidence. Sure there probably is some biology behind it. There's probably some societal roles and the emergence of self behind it, but it just comes down to the facts. Look at the masterworks of all art and for one reason or the other, most of the artists behind them were men. No barriers to cross, no glass ceiling, it just comes down to the work and nothing else. If there was a masterpiece of film made by a woman up there with the greats it'd be easy to point out, but there just isn't (at this point in time at least).


              There are so many holes in your pretzel logic it's not even worth calling you on them.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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              • #52
                Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
                and the first 81 have all been white men.
                the 44th president was the first minority... and no women yet. but, it looks like the odds are better for minorities to run president.
                Well, how many women have been candidates? You have to be a candidate before you can win. I mean look, we're talking here about the top of the top of the top, which again, is just an incredibly rare stratosphere to reach, regardless of race or gender, and at that level the statistics sort of mean nothing. I mean, that is almost akin to saying, no black woman has ever set foot on the moon, that is just not right !!!

                For this to mean anything, you would have to say, this is how many women have TRIED versus this is how many have FAILED, and then compare that to the same stats as white men.

                I mean, do white men run this country, well, duh, yes. Is it changing? Yes, everyday, and thank God for that. One of the reasons Obama was so popular around the world is because even America-hating countries believed that this could only be possible here.

                You could also argue that more white men have failed at running for president than women or blacks. Those high level jobs that are shared by such a tiny, tiny percentage of the entire world population, are just not fair examples to prove any kind of point. If a minority fails, it's automatically assumed that it's because he/she is a minority, but if a white man fails, it's assumed that it's because he wasn't good enough or popular enough for the job.

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                • #53
                  Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                  Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                  I mean, do white men run this country, well, duh, yes. Is it changing? Yes, everyday, and thank God for that. One of the reasons Obama was so popular around the world is because even America-hating countries believed that this could only be possible here.
                  I agreed with everything else but this. It has happened in lots of other countries - Nelson Mandela, Margaret Thatcher; many world leaders have been women. I think the world loved Obama for all kinds of reasons, not least of which because he seemed the antithesis of Bush.

                  But really, a good chunk of the developed world was wondering why it had taken so long for what was once the most politically progressive countries in the world. That it was about time.

                  Sorry - a bit off-topic. Just thought I'd clarify this from a foreigners' perspective.

                  I think these awards are always fraught and inevitably subjective. Gender/culture etc. definitely play a role, particularly when so many elements of the collaborative process is politicised. But it's impossible to track back to where and when. It's just always there, even if it isn't always the prevailing factor.

                  Again, pointless trying to work out which bits and which films. Or which writers, or which whatevers.

                  There have been some amazing women directors who have produced works as impressive as other Oscar winners, just not perhaps in the right year, or at the right time, or on the right day. Or with the right backing.

                  Whatever. Katherine Bigelow is a very talented woman whose work I look forward to seeing more of. Hopefully Oscar will aid that process.

                  Nic
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                  • #54
                    Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                    Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                    I agreed with everything else but this. It has happened in lots of other countries - Nelson Mandela, Margaret Thatcher; many world leaders have been women. I think the world loved Obama for all kinds of reasons, not least of which because he seemed the antithesis of Bush.

                    But really, a good chunk of the developed world was wondering why it had taken so long for what was once the most politically progressive countries in the world. That it was about time.

                    Sorry - a bit off-topic. Just thought I'd clarify this from a foreigners' perspective.
                    Nic
                    Just to clarify... this wasn't my opinion, but something that was shown time and time again in the press and also, from my personal experience, said to me by people from other countries... including people from other western democracies. "This could only happen in America."

                    I mean, yes, you could say Pakistan had a woman leader, but women around the world would hardly hold that country up as an example of a country where women's rights are held in high esteem... there are numerous other examples. Obama was on some level even more popular overseas than he was here, he represented Hope to a greater extent. And I do think that says a lot about America. We have a long way to go, but we sure as hell have come a long way.

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                    • #55
                      Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                      Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
                      and the first 81 have all been white men.
                      Ang Lee

                      Last night in San Pedro

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                      • #56
                        Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                        Originally posted by nathanq
                        But seriously, I suppose this whole argument end up going towards the male and female brain differences and how the vast majority of great artists in history have been men. It's not really coincidence. Sure there probably is some biology behind it. There's probably some societal roles and the emergence of self behind it, but it just comes down to the facts. Look at the masterworks of all art and for one reason or the other, most of the artists behind them were men. No barriers to cross, no glass ceiling, it just comes down to the work and nothing else.
                        Wow. Sc is right. I don't even know where to start. So I'll just say one thing. Probably some societal roles? Probably? Although it's less true now (in the developed world, at least), that history you talk about was full of societies where being female meant you didn't get the opportunities men got. I don't really have to tell you this, do I?

                        Maybe I do.
                        "Your intuition knows what to write, so get out of the way.-
                        ― Ray Bradbury

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                        • #57
                          Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                          Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                          Just to clarify... this wasn't my opinion, but something that was shown time and time again in the press and also, from my personal experience, said to me by people from other countries... including people from other western democracies. "This could only happen in America."

                          I mean, yes, you could say Pakistan had a woman leader, but women around the world would hardly hold that country up as an example of a country where women's rights are held in high esteem... there are numerous other examples. Obama was on some level even more popular overseas than he was here, he represented Hope to a greater extent. And I do think that says a lot about America. We have a long way to go, but we sure as hell have come a long way.
                          I don't mean to argue, but I guess it depends on who you speak to - it was certainly met with hope, but also, the "about bloody time" syndrome.

                          There have been women heads of state/world leaders for more than a century in some countries (China), but more recently, Switzerland, Germany, The Netherlands, the Phillipines, India, Chile, Sweden, Canada, even technically, Australia. (The Governor-General, on paper, is actually our head of state and can, in effect, sack our Prime Minister.) There are actually plenty more but these are just in recent times.

                          Some of these countries are more progressive than others, granted, but the US is hardly leading the charge when it comes to minorities gaining political power.

                          As for HW, I don't think anyone expects that old bastion of money and politics to ever change. It will be given a nudge every now and then, but there are too many and too much invested in preserving the status quo.

                          There'll be more Katherine Bigelows, but it will probably be a couple of years before another woman wins Best Director. IMHO.

                          Sadly.
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                          • #58
                            Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                            Originally posted by nic.h View Post
                            I don't mean to argue, but I guess it depends on who you speak to - it was certainly met with hope, but also, the "about bloody time" syndrome.

                            There have been women heads of state/world leaders for more than a century in some countries (China), but more recently, Switzerland, Germany, The Netherlands, the Phillipines, India, Chile, Sweden, Canada, even technically, Australia. (The Governor-General, on paper, is actually our head of state and can, in effect, sack our Prime Minister.) There are actually plenty more but these are just in recent times.

                            Some of these countries are more progressive than others, granted, but the US is hardly leading the charge when it comes to minorities gaining political power.

                            As for HW, I don't think anyone expects that old bastion of money and politics to ever change. It will be given a nudge every now and then, but there are too many and too much invested in preserving the status quo.

                            There'll be more Katherine Bigelows, but it will probably be a couple of years before another woman wins Best Director. IMHO.

                            Sadly.
                            I'm tired and ready for bed and in no mood to argue, but there is a difference between a single person achieving power and minorities as a whole advancing in a much larger culture. There are women who achieve power in the most backwards, repressed societies in the world, I mean a woman can become head of state in a country where freaking honor killings are still condoned or the caste system is still in effect, that means crap.

                            And a lot of western democracies have minority populations that aren't nearly as integrated as they are in the U.S. at the level of local government. I'm sure Switzerland is not crawling with Turkish mayors or Arab city councilmen and the likes, it's not exactly the most immigration friendly country on the planet. There are countries where government is much more centralized than the U.S. and where a lot less people have a voice.

                            And I do not dispute the fact that there are certainly a lot of countries where women have achieved more power than in the U.S., but take those countries and look at their minority populations, and then look at how those minority populations have succeeded, and how well represented they are, and generally, it's not the same game.

                            OK, time for bed

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                            • #59
                              Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                              I completely agree, Rantan. I was referring entirely and exclusively to the issue of Obama's presidential win - how it was not an "only in America" type of situation at all.


                              Sadly, it rarely translates to much on the ground, as you've said.

                              (It's early evening here. Hope you have a good night's sleep. )
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                              • #60
                                Re: And the Oscar goes to...

                                South Africa only has something like a 10% white population, yet for election after election, they voted for a white guy for President.

                                Maybe their's is a progressive model that the rest of the world should be looking to adopt.
                                "Only nothing is impossible."
                                - Grant Morrison

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