Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

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  • #46
    Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

    Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
    But she did kill him one day, and went right back to his hideout, with no fear, and these so-called fanatics started singing 'ding dong the witch is dead' like she was their hero.

    I got the impression when she rolled up with the body she had no idea what to expect, judging by the look on her face. This was her goal and her destination, for better or worse. The "ding dong the witch is dead" moment was a boon and a final reinforcement on a social level of the small arc of Nux. But... eye of the beholder, I suppose.

    It's the little things.

    Back to Star Wars, Rey is shown in action to have knowledge of mechanics and starships when she is scrapping. She carries a staff so I'll assume she knows how to use it. She has a flashback of being a young jedi in training. She is secreted away for protection, implying she is important enough to do so (like Luke before her). Based on all of that, I guess I'm still not sure how she qualifies as a "Mary Sue".

    Based on some of the Mary Sue assertions, I'd almost have to be believe Erin Brockovitch is also a Mary Sue character.

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    • #47
      Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

      Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
      At a certain point, your inability to believe something is about you, not the material. Especially when you admit to ignoring people who have direct experience with what you're talking about sharing their knowledge.
      I didn't ignore your comment because it wasn't true, or because it conflicted with my opinion. I ignored it because it had absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.

      As far as anyone's 'ability to believe' goes, we all know that feature films are the most narratively handicapped storytelling format there is, so we all are conditioned to forgive minor coincidences and implausibilities, especially in the set-up, in the interest of saving time (in other words, if someone is revealed to be an expert at something, I'm perfectly capable of imagining the time that they must have devoted to studying it, so spare me the training montage).

      However, one of the things that creates suspense most effectively in a movie is the idea that any particular turn in a story could *actually happen* IRL because, after all, those people up there on the screen are just stand-ins for ourselves. And anything that could *really* happen to them could theoretically *really* happen to us.

      If you're watching a fantasy, like Star Wars or Ghostbusters or The Terminator, you're watching it on a different level and for different reasons, so these things don't matter quite as much, and that's great too.

      But if you're pretending that your story is the former, and the very premise of the film violates real world logic, then there is nothing to buy into, and therefore, no stakes (this goes back to my earlier comment about a gender-bender Road House, which has drawn rebuttal).

      I'll give you a quick example of what I mean (if everyone will forgive me for being off topic). I've heard there is an All Female remake of Ocean's 11 being developed, and in my opinion, that is the most absurd story premise of all time (I mean, I hope it's fun, and I hope it makes money for everyone, but in watching it I will never forget that it's just a movie, and therefore never really be on the edge of my seat).

      The reason that every heist / long con crew in the history of the world was always made up of men (with the exception of the occasional honeypot to be used as a distraction / bait) is because the con business is entirely dependent on average-looking bland men in average-looking bland clothing moving unnoticed through public spaces and not drawing attention to themselves as they ply their trade.

      A woman (especially by herself) will be noticed by everyone in every room, always. Mostly by other women, who will remember very specific details about her shoes and haircut, etc.

      Unless someone has the guts to make this film with average looking women in clothes from Target and no make-up (God, I wish they would), it's a complete fail that can't be undone by suspension of disbelief.

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      • #48
        Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

        Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
        Based on some of the Mary Sue assertions, I'd almost have to be believe Erin Brockovitch is also a Mary Sue character.
        Erin Brockovitch is NOT a Mary Sue, but she's an interesting example of the difference between women and men, and the reason why women make much better whistle-blowers.

        Male whistle-blowers, even buttoned-down corporate executives, can very quickly find themselves on the receiving end of death threats or physical intimidation (see Michael Mann's The Insider) by virtue of the unwritten guy code about not being a rat, whereas women are viewed more as underdog-heros, and usually not killed as a matter of principle.

        Back on topic, now that I hear that Tony Gilroy is doing the Rogue One rewrite, I can definitely say I will give it a watch.

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        • #49
          Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

          Originally posted by kintnerboy;
          The reason that every heist / long con crew in the history of the world was always made up of men (with the exception of the occasional honeypot to be used as a distraction / bait) is because the con business is entirely dependent on average-looking bland men in average-looking bland clothing moving unnoticed through public spaces and not drawing attention to themselves as they ply their trade.
          Yet the Ocean's Eleven series has exceptionally great looking men in great-looking tailor-made clothes, doing their heists.

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          • #50
            Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

            Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
            The reason that every heist / long con crew in the history of the world was always made up of men (with the exception of the occasional honeypot to be used as a distraction / bait) is because the con business is entirely dependent on average-looking bland men in average-looking bland clothing moving unnoticed through public spaces and not drawing attention to themselves as they ply their trade.
            Yeah what tuuka said -- because Brad Pitt and George Clooney -- not to mention Frank Sinatra in the original -- what a bunch of ugly a** character actors they are. Totally able to blend into the crowd and not be noticed. Nothing to write home about, those boys. Lucky they have a career at all.

            It's not like they were ever on the cover of magazines as the Sexist Men alive or anything.
            Last edited by figment; 06-09-2016, 02:36 PM. Reason: tuuka has 2 u's not 2 k's

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            • #51
              Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

              Originally posted by figment View Post
              Yeah what tuuka said -- because Brad Pitt and George Clooney -- not to mention Frank Sinatra in the original -- what a bunch of ugly a** character actors they are. Totally able to blend into the crowd and not be noticed. Nothing to write home about, those boys. Lucky they have a career at all.

              It's not like they were ever on the cover of magazines as the Sexist Men alive or anything.
              Definitely. No one would ever pay attention to average-looking guys like Brad Pitt or George Clooney if they were planning a heist, lol. Not to mention, I'm sure Sandra Bullock and Cate Blanchett would wear evening gowns and high heels with full makeup as they scouted the location, thus making it that much harder for them to get away with the job.
              "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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              • #52
                Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                Yet the Ocean's Eleven series has exceptionally great looking men in great-looking tailor-made clothes, doing their heists.
                Originally posted by figment View Post
                Yeah what tuuka said -- because Brad Pitt and George Clooney -- not to mention Frank Sinatra in the original -- what a bunch of ugly a** character actors they are. Totally able to blend into the crowd and not be noticed. Nothing to write home about, those boys. Lucky they have a career at all.

                It's not like they were ever on the cover of magazines as the Sexist Men alive or anything.
                Ha. both these comments are fantastic, as long as your only objective is to 'win' a petty argument on the internet or get some lolz for snark.

                However you're both ignoring (or pretending to not understand) the point, which is that regardless of how good looking or ugly Hollywood actors are, they are, at the very least, acceptable stand-ins for the real world heist crews, who are always men whose appearance is absolutely dependent on going unnoticed (think Joey Bishop).

                Unless it's a glitzy Vegas heist like Now You See Me, but even then the crew will be all male, because, well... whoever heard of a female magician? (again, not saying this is a good thing, but I only care about what's true and accurate).

                I feel like I'm laboring here to make a point that is as obvious as it is common sense, which usually means it's time to throw in the towel.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                  Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                  Ha. both these comments are fantastic, as long as your only objective is to 'win' a petty argument on the internet or get some lolz for snark.

                  However you're both ignoring (or pretending to not understand) the point, which is that regardless of how good looking or ugly Hollywood actors are, they are, at the very least, acceptable stand-ins for the real world heist crews, who are always men whose appearance is absolutely dependent on going unnoticed (think Joey Bishop).

                  Unless it's a glitzy Vegas heist like Now You See Me, but even then the crew will be all male, because, well... whoever heard of a female magician? (again, not saying this is a good thing, but I only care about what's true and accurate).

                  I feel like I'm laboring here to make a point that is as obvious as it is common sense, which usually means it's time to throw in the towel.
                  Anyone else kintnerboy has had a stroke or something? It's like when that newscaster started talking gibberish on the air.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                    Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                    Ha. both these comments are fantastic, as long as your only objective is to 'win' a petty argument on the internet or get some lolz for snark.

                    However you're both ignoring (or pretending to not understand) the point, which is that regardless of how good looking or ugly Hollywood actors are, they are, at the very least, acceptable stand-ins for the real world heist crews, who are always men whose appearance is absolutely dependent on going unnoticed (think Joey Bishop).

                    Unless it's a glitzy Vegas heist like Now You See Me, but even then the crew will be all male, because, well... whoever heard of a female magician? (again, not saying this is a good thing, but I only care about what's true and accurate).

                    I feel like I'm laboring here to make a point that is as obvious as it is common sense, which usually means it's time to throw in the towel.
                    You just praised Ocean's Eleven, which then was pointed out for being unrealistic, and now you attack others for being right. Huh?

                    Just so that you know, there are all-women heist teams in the real world. And when it comes to magicians, roughly 5% of them are women. And Isla Fisher is a woman, and part of the 4-member "Horsemen" team in Now You See Me.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                      This thread needs 40% of reshoots.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                        I got see a fraction of this recently, it looks amazing visually but how the writers still have jobs is beyond me, utter tripe. If this is the improved version I can't imagine how bad the original was.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                          Is it as plodding and aimless as the director's previous film, Godzilla?

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                          • #58
                            Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                            Saw it last night. IMAX 3D. Loathed it. IMHO, it was devoid of originality, intelligence, wit, style, charm, excitement, and heart.

                            And I loved The Force Awakens.

                            I don't get why people are calling this the best Star Wars since Empire (which I also loved).
                            "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                            Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                              http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-82E6iBwap2...h-vader-no.jpg
                              You know Jill you remind me of my mother. She was the biggest whore in Alameda and the finest woman that ever lived. Whoever my father was, for an hour or for a month, he must have been a happy man.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                                Originally posted by UneducatedFan View Post
                                <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-82E6iBwap2o/UPKe4qpv5NI/AAAAAAAAF9A/cyY3w3CAGOI/w1200-h630-p-nu/darth-vader-no.jpg">
                                Is that your response to the movie or my post?
                                "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                                Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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