Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

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  • #31
    Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

    Monsters and Godzilla were both kinda moody in their tone. It's a little bit sad if they are making this less dark.

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    • #32
      Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

      Originally posted by tuukka View Post
      Monsters and Godzilla were both kinda moody in their tone. It's a little bit sad if they are making this less dark.
      thank god George Lucas didn't take this approach in 1975

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      • #33
        Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

        Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
        thank god George Lucas didn't take this approach in 1975
        I think it would be good for the new films to distinguish them more. The main series is all-family fun, as it should be. But the other movies could be more different.

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        • #34
          Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

          Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
          Yes, quite often it does. It's basic physics.

          When a 100 lb. woman hits a 300 lb. man, the man doesn't fly backwards, ten feet, in reality.

          When a 300 lb. man slugs a 100 lb. woman, that's going to do some major damage, in reality.

          The only way the much smaller fighter wins is if they have far superior fighting skills, are much quicker and use the heavier persons weight against them.

          I've seen far too many fights, in movies, between a 100 lb. woman and 300 lb. man (maybe a slight exaggeration on the weights -- but not much) that are depicted as slug-fests. I remember one where the woman gets slugged in the face by a huge fist, connected to a mountain of muscle, and she cocks her head, looks tough, cracks her neck and kicks ass.

          That's clearly unrealistic.

          If you can't picture that -- imagine a one foot high man, who weighs 25 lbs. When he slugs you, do you imagine you'd fly ten feet back? How about when you kick him -- will he be in for a world of hurt?

          Basic physics.
          Frankly, I don't buy any of this.

          I'm somewhat an expert on issue, having done 2 seasons of a martial arts series, which visited over 20 major schools worldwide. Traditional martial arts, MMA, military techniques, street fighting.

          Movie fighting by default is extremely unrealistic. Even when it's man vs. man.

          For example, a trained fighter never punches anyone in the face with bare knuckles. Because facial bones are hard, and knuckles are not. The reason why boxers wear gloves is not to protect the head of the enemy, but to protect the knuckles. They break rather easily. In street fighting, you are advised to use palms and elbows instead, when in extreme close contact. And wrestling, if you have only one opponent.

          It's a common sight for 100lbs instructors to totally dominate 300lbs amateurs, regardless of the fighting style. People who lack knowledge of martial arts typically underestimate how much talent, skill, speed, etc, matter.

          When Soderbergh did Haywire with Carano in the lead, the same people on this forum were complaining how she could dominate over the men in the film. Which is just ridiculous. Put Carano in the ring with someone like Fassbender, and she would completely dominate him. Fact.

          All in all, this is just misogyny in disguise. People are perfectly happy to watch unrealistic action scenes by male stars, but not so happy to watch an equally unrealistic action scene by a female star.

          I weight well over 200lbs, and I know girls half my size, who need *only one kick or hit* to render me immobile, and unable to fight. If we wrestle, it's 10 seconds max and I'm useless.

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          • #35
            Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

            The first trailer looked like a spoof to me, so I'm not surprised on the reshoots. I posted somewhere on that previously, but in a nutshell: over-acted, British accents wayyy overdone, ridiculous lines ("...I rebel." Really?). Did I mention over-acting? Except ghost dog; he can do no wrong
            Last edited by nativeson; 06-02-2016, 12:40 PM.

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            • #36
              Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

              Originally posted by tuukka View Post
              When Soderbergh did Haywire with Carano in the lead, the same people on this forum were complaining how she could dominate over the men in the film. Which is just ridiculous. Put Carano in the ring with someone like Fassbender, and she would completely dominate him. Fact.

              All in all, this is just misogyny in disguise. People are perfectly happy to watch unrealistic action scenes by male stars, but not so happy to watch an equally unrealistic action scene by a female star.

              I weight well over 200lbs, and I know girls half my size, who need *only one kick or hit* to render me immobile, and unable to fight. If we wrestle, it's 10 seconds max and I'm useless.
              Sorry to steal your line, but frankly, I don't buy any of this.

              If I'm watching a movie like Roadhouse, I don't really believe that Patrick Swayze can kick 3 guys' butts at the same time. But because there are guys in the world who can do just that, he is an acceptable avatar for me.

              A woman in the same role, however (which I believe is actually happening somewhere) pushes the film from the realm of *suspension of disbelief* to *complete fantasy*

              That's not to say that there aren't women out there who could beat the crap out of a man. I'm sure there are. But there aren't any that could take care of the type of guy a bar bouncer would call a 'problem' (aka the type of guy that it takes 5 cops to get a pair of cuffs on). Sorry.

              I shut Mad Max off half way through because they had a 120 pound, one-armed woman kicking the crap out of everyone like she was an extra from The Avengers. If that's the case, why couldn't Furiosa just beat up Immortan Joe in the first reel and saved us all two hours of our lives?

              And I understand that the very reason that Disney is killing it right now is because they are making live action cartoons for adult children, but give me a Ripley or a Sarah Conner any day.

              ps- this whole 'if you disagree with me you're racist / sexist / whatever-ist" is gauche.

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              • #37
                Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                A woman in the same role, however (which I believe is actually happening somewhere) pushes the film from the realm of *suspension of disbelief* to *complete fantasy*

                That's not to say that there aren't women out there who could beat the crap out of a man. I'm sure there are. But there aren't any that could take care of the type of guy a bar bouncer would call a 'problem' (aka the type of guy that it takes 5 cops to get a pair of cuffs on). Sorry.
                Rhonda Rousey. She could kick most men's ass nine ways to Sunday.

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                • #38
                  Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                  So apparently:

                  * The crew expects they are reshooting 40% of the film.

                  * 32 sets have been recreated for the reshoot.

                  * They are working 6 days a week for 8 weeks.

                  * Some crew initially heard J.J. Abrams was supervising the reshoots.

                  * Gareth Edwards is doing the reshoots himself but with a partner, Christopher McQuarrie who will be working extensively with Edwards onset to make sure they’re on the “same page” with the most recent draft of the film.

                  * Christopher McQuarrie’s draft of Rogue One: A Star Wars Story was considered superior to the film they shot previously.

                  * It was not Edwards’ fault as McQuarrie’s draft wasn’t completed when much of the film was shot and revisions kept coming in that made the film feel uneven.

                  Would like to see the original cut one day vs whatever the committee churns out in the end.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                    Time to chop off some heads and use that money to buy our scripts


                    I'd like to read that McQuarrie draft. He's great.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                      Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                      But there aren't any that could take care of the type of guy a bar bouncer would call a 'problem' (aka the type of guy that it takes 5 cops to get a pair of cuffs on). Sorry.
                      You're just wrong here. Speed, balance, and inertia matter a tremendous amount.

                      One of the fascinating things about watching an modern aikido master practice is how little energy they use. It's exhausting attacking them, but they're not breaking a sweat.

                      And even at my best, I was no master, but one of the things you quickly learn is that stronger isn't always better. A lot of (modern) aikido throws and holds work better if you actually don't try to muscle them. The people who struggle the most learning aikido are, in fact, people who are used to overpowering others, because your own tendency to rely on strength actually gets in the way.

                      I can say with absolute certainly that my strength vis-as-vis my opponents, in aikido, was essentially irrelevant. Technique and timing are AT LEAST 99% of it.

                      (I emphasize modern here because somebody like Steven Segal was using very classical aikido techniques which do rely on strength more).

                      There are aikido throws where I've gotten somebody on the ground without hitting them any harder than you might slap a button on an arcade game, because I was able to manipulate them into shifting their weight into a position where that was enough. There was a way to get people to fall which we used to call the jedi mind trick, because it actually didn't require contact at all (although in a real-world combat situation you probably would drive them to the ground once you had their balance).

                      There are holds where I can completely hold a 250-lb person incapacitated with literally - no exaggeration - two fingers (although that wouldn't work if they were on enough drugs to not feel pain. Being that drugged up would make other techniques all the more effective, however. Drink people are a piece of cake to deal with on aikido.)

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                      • #41
                        Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                        I'm pretty sure Rey was hitting people with a staff and Katniss was shooting arrows at them. I'm also pretty sure they would both hurt (or kill) you with those weapons, regardless of size and weight.

                        All the martial arts back and forth is basically a bunch of theoretical what ifs. It's all possible. It's all subjective. It's often random. Doesn't care whether you "buy it" or not.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                          As to comment on why Furiosa didn't go after Joe. I'd think it was a path of least resistance kind of thing. Why fight if you don't think you have to?

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                          • #43
                            Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                            Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
                            As to comment on why Furiosa didn't go after Joe. I'd think it was a path of least resistance kind of thing. Why fight if you don't think you have to?
                            Plus he was a cult leader/dictator who was constantly surrounded by fanatics who would happily kill (or die) for him at any moment. It'd be pretty stupid for any individual to just randomly decide to try killing him one day.

                            As for the main topic, reshoots don't always spell the death of a film (World War Z seems to have come out OK). Not a good sign, though, especially this late in the game.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                              Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
                              All the martial arts back and forth is basically a bunch of theoretical what ifs. It's all possible. It's all subjective. It's often random. Doesn't care whether you "buy it" or not.
                              None of this has anything to do with me 'buying' it or not. It's a matter of female characters only being 'empowered' within the context of fantasy. Hunger Games, Star Wars, Avengers, Ghostbusters-- all fantasy.

                              It's like Hollywood is saying "Women are just as good as men, in every way shape and form... as long as it's fantasy." (which is where I think this whole Mary Sue thing comes from. It's a euphemism for Make Believe).

                              And of course all the martial arts comments are theoretical (which is why I ignored them, even though they are probably all true, in theory). When you're in a bar fight and getting sucker punched by a 230 pound adult man, you're going to wind up brain damaged or dead, and they can bury you in your black belt.

                              Originally posted by omjs View Post
                              Plus he was a cult leader/dictator who was constantly surrounded by fanatics who would happily kill (or die) for him at any moment. It'd be pretty stupid for any individual to just randomly decide to try killing him one day.
                              But she did kill him one day, and went right back to his hideout, with no fear, and these so-called fanatics started singing 'ding dong the witch is dead' like she was their hero.

                              Again, these films are all live-action cartoons, so parsing them for story logic is pretty silly.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

                                At a certain point, your inability to believe something is about you, not the material. Especially when you admit to ignoring people who have direct experience with what you're talking about sharing their knowledge.

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