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Old 06-16-2018, 01:13 PM   #1
StoryWriter
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Default Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

Ocean's 8 stars blame dominance of male critics for film's mixed reviews

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"Mindy Kaling and Cate Blanchett echo Brie Larson in calling for greater diversity among reviewers"

"Stars of Ocean’s 8, the heist movie featuring all-female leads, have accused male critics of failing to appreciate their film.

Speaking to Yahoo Movies, Mindy Kaling called the dominance of white male reviewers “unfair”. “If I had to base my career on what white men wanted I would be very unsuccessful, so there is obviously an audience out there who want to watch things like [Ocean’s 8], what I work on, what Sarah [Paulson] works on.”

Co-star Cate Blanchett concurred, saying the media had failed to make the mindshift the movie industry had when it came to gender equality. “The conversation has to change,” she said, “and the media has a huge responsibility.”

"Kaling referred to Meryl Streep’s attack on reviews aggregate site Rotten Tomatoes, which she felt prioritised the views of men. Promoting the film Suffragette in 2015, Streep said she felt the ratio adversely affected ticket sales for female-skewed films."
A little reality:

First off -- the film is not a failure. It opened around $5 to $10 Million more than predicted by it's studio.

Second. "Rotten Tomatoes" critics rate this film as "Fresh" "68%"

Third. While it's true more men than women critics, for this film, are listed on Rotten Tomatoes (66% men, 34% women), 36% of the women critics give it a thumbs down, while 35% of the men critics give it a thumbs down. Pretty close to equal, but the women critics liked it less.

What is the criticism? It boils down to there wasn't enough at stake. Things came too easy and there was not enough conflict. (Also the idea was tired, and they were looking for a twist to make it more unique.) Many critics (men and women) were not happy that so many talented actresses were given so little to work with. In other words, story flaws.

Several said they needed a kick-ass bad guy to go against. One person said they essentially had to "outsmart" security guards.

But with all that -- the movie is still doing good at the box office.

So why all the whining and bitching?
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Last edited by StoryWriter : 06-16-2018 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Corrected Math
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

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So why all the whining and bitching?
It's just what those effing Earthlings always do, man.
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Old 06-16-2018, 09:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

Rotten Tomatoes scores have an outsized influence on opening weekend box office, so even small biases in reviews -- real or perceived -- can adversely affect a movie's opening.

68% is not a great RT score. is it fairly earned? i haven't seen Oceans 8 so i won't personally opine. but i know that implicit bias is definitely a real thing so i won't say that the criticism of that score isn't valid.

i also know from experience that a lot of mediocre male-driven movies get better reviews than they probably deserve. so the existence of a double standard for female-driven films wouldn't surprise me in the least.

case in point, David Edelstein's misogynist review of Wonder Woman last year. depending on how many more David Edelsteins come to female-centered movies with the same kind of personal axe to grind, I probably wouldn't want them reviewing Oceans 8 if I were the producer either.

https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainm...ple-cant-read/
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

Blaming people for having a different opinion is always a good tactic. It's like a chef blaming the customers for not liking his food.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:21 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

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Originally Posted by StoryWriter View Post
A little reality:
How deftly you dismiss the women that you've quoted as being unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by StoryWriter View Post
So why all the whining and bitching?
You chose to use the word 'bitching'? Seriously? Is the word 'complaining', or 'criticism', or 'concern' not suitable? Pointing out the fact of a 2 males to 1 female ratio on an influential movie review website is not "whining and bitching". Have you not considered that you may be part of the problem?
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:29 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

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Blaming people for having a different opinion is always a good tactic. It's like a chef blaming the customers for not liking his food.
What absolute twaddle. That's a fallacious analogy. Since when is sexism and gender inequality merely an opinion?
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:21 AM   #7
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

(...)

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Old 06-17-2018, 09:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

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Originally Posted by Crayon View Post
You chose to use the word 'bitching'? Seriously? Is the word 'complaining', or 'criticism', or 'concern' not suitable? Pointing out the fact of a 2 males to 1 female ratio on an influential movie review website is not "whining and bitching". Have you not considered that you may be part of the problem?
Oh good grief. I thought the original Oceans 11 sucked and didn't watch any of the others. There's no way in hell I would want to watch what amounts to a gender-changing reboot of a tired (and tiresome) franchise. If these women want to be remembered for something, act in something worth remembering. Meanwhile there was some (probably) valid criticism. Did you check into that, or did you just knee-jerk into PC Correct Mode?

And, yeah, these women "bitched" about nothing. MEN and women "bitch" all the time. It's part of the English language, it's a verb that means "to complain in a whining or grumbling manner; to gripe." Don't like it? Tough. It's a word I use all the time. I'm fed up with the brain-dead "PC Police," who don't even know what words really mean, trying to tell me what words I should and shouldn't use. Life's too short to walk on eggshells.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

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case in point, David Edelstein's misogynist review of Wonder Woman last year. depending on how many more David Edelsteins come to female-centered movies with the same kind of personal axe to grind, I probably wouldn't want them reviewing Oceans 8 if I were the producer either.
I haven't seen (or plan to see) Wonder Woman, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't this a movie about a woman who mostly runs around in not much more than a bikini? Wouldn't the movie, itself, be misogynist?
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

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I haven't seen (or plan to see) Wonder Woman, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't this a movie about a woman who mostly runs around in not much more than a bikini?

She does run around in a skimpy outfit and she looks freaking hot doing it, but she also totally kicks ass and she is powerful and smart and wise and funny and compassionate and she totally rocks

And btw, her outfit is a warrior amazon outfit. There are certainly plenty of male stars in movies running around half naked with pecs and biceps galore fighting all manner of threat and enemies...

I think she's an empowering role model for young girls, actually. And not for nothing, but chicks who play Beatrix-Kill-Bill or Sarah Connor or Wonder Woman etc have to put in the work to look/act the part, which usually involves months of grueling physical training.
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