Overexposed on Blacklist?

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  • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

    Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
    we should all work on our writing as hard as you work on trying to tell Franklin how to do his job
    Not trying to tell him how to do his job; he knows how to do that just fine. Just offering my opinion on a service for which I'm a paying customer, in response to a comment made by someone else. That's what these things called "forums" are for.

    How's your writing going? Got any 8s or above on the BL recently? Placed in any important contests? Got any read requests from pros? Maybe you should work a little harder, 'cause snark doesn't require much effort.
    "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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    • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

      Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
      This is a good point you bring up here. I've noticed for a few years now that whatever the overall score is, all of the individual categories are always within one point of that number. Which doesn't make much sense because you can have individual categories that stand out even though the reader wasn't fond of the overall script (e.g., you can have a weak premise and poor plotting but great dialogue).

      It feels as though the readers are often trying to justify the overall score by aligning the category numbers with it, which doesn't really seem fair. This is why I've said before (and I'll keep saying) that the scoring system does not lend itself to any kind of consistency between readers. This means that you could easily get a high overall score and get a low score the next time around for the very same features that got praised.

      It would make sense to have the readers answer 1-2 questions per category to ensure they are at least thinking on a similar wavelength, even if they didn't like the overall script. For example, the Nicholl has these questions for certain categories:

      Story
      Does the story have an original premise?
      Does that story idea start the movie forward?
      Does the story itself have a strong beginning, middle & end? How about two out of three? If the story is non-linear, does it make sense?
      Does this script make you feel that the writer is taking you on a journey?
      Does the story connect with you emotionally, whether it's a comedy or drama or another genre?

      Characters
      Does this script have vivid characters who each speak in their own voice?
      Do you want to know what happens to them?
      Does the central character change over the course of the story? If it's an ensemble film, does more than one character change?
      Do the dialogue and tone seem consistent from scene to scene?
      Does the way the people speak fit the tone and setting of the story?

      Craft
      Does this writer know how to use description and dialogue to create suspense, tension, drama, comedy and conflict? Does the conflict propel the story forward?
      Do the main characters take actions that move the story along?
      Are these actions in keeping with who these people are? Or do they happen "conveniently-?

      Forcing their readers to answer these specific questions creates a standardization that gives confidence that the Nicholl is judging entrants by the same yardstick. It's the type of standardization that would give customers more confidence in the BL's scoring. Which is especially important now given the higher prices. But alas, I've given up on making this (rather straightforward) argument.
      I think that if you have categories each one should be commented on. Like if dialogue is an 8, why? If premise is a 3, why? The answere don't need to be essays. One of my evaluations gave me a 7 on dialogue and while I was happy there wasn't really a comment on it to explain why it was that good or where it failed.

      Either way the main issue everyone keeps repeating is random readers and that won't be fixed by the above, it'll just amplify the problem.

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      • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

        Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
        I think that if you have categories each one should be commented on. Like if dialogue is an 8, why? If premise is a 3, why? The answere don't need to be essays. One of my evaluations gave me a 7 on dialogue and while I was happy there wasn't really a comment on it to explain why it was that good or where it failed.

        Either way the main issue everyone keeps repeating is random readers and that won't be fixed by the above, it'll just amplify the problem.
        I like the idea of providing at least a sentence for each category; would provide more justification instead of allowing readers to just dash off a random-seeming number.

        What do you mean by "random readers"?
        "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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        • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

          Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
          I like the idea of providing at least a sentence for each category; would provide more justification instead of allowing readers to just dash off a random-seeming number.

          What do you mean by "random readers"?
          Getting a 7, 8 or 9 and the next reader gives a 3, 4 or 5. Seems to be quite common. If my script is a 4 I don't want a 7 and if it's a 9 I don't want a 5. I don't want to be mislead either way.

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          • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

            Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
            Getting a 7, 8 or 9 and the next reader gives a 3, 4 or 5. Seems to be quite common. If my script is a 4 I don't want a 7 and if it's a 9 I don't want a 5. I don't want to be mislead either way.
            But that was the point of my argument. The only way to ensure a certain consistency between multiple readers is to establish a set of standards they can all adhere to. Otherwise, the score you get ends up being a crapshoot.
            "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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            • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

              Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
              But that was the point of my argument. The only way to ensure a certain consistency between multiple readers is to establish a set of standards they can all adhere to. Otherwise, the score you get ends up being a crapshoot.
              Oh I agree. Sorry for the confusion. The scores they give can make little sense against their comments. One of my scripts got a 6 for premise that was described as "highly imaginative and strong". What's a 9? "When I read the premise it was so good I had to pleasure myself."

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              • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                Getting a 7, 8 or 9 and the next reader gives a 3, 4 or 5. Seems to be quite common. If my script is a 4 I don't want a 7 and if it's a 9 I don't want a 5. I don't want to be mislead either way.
                96% of scripts get reviews that 2 or fewer points apart. For a subjective judgement, they're doing a pretty good job, IMO.

                (And I say this as someone who got a 9 and a 6.)
                Last edited by JeffLowell; 05-18-2016, 02:13 PM.

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                • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                  Originally posted by Phoenixman78 View Post
                  Oh I agree. Sorry for the confusion. The scores they give can make little sense against their comments. One of my scripts got a 6 for premise that was described as "highly imaginative and strong". What's a 9? "When I read the premise it was so good I had to pleasure myself."
                  I would love to be able to inspire that kind of reaction in a reader, lol.
                  "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

                  Comment


                  • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                    96% of scripts get reviews that 2 or fewer points apart. For a subjective judgement, they're doing a pretty good job, IMO.

                    (And I say this as someone who got a 9 and a 6.)
                    If you got the data to back up that 96% that'd be something I'd like to see. Anyone can make up a statistic 78% of people will tell you that.

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                    • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                      Franklin has talked about it before. He's the reply I found where he said my 9 and 6 were part of the 4% of scripts with that big a spread:

                      http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...&postcount=143

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                      • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                        Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                        Franklin has talked about it before. He's the reply I found where he said my 9 and 6 were part of the 4% of scripts with that big a spread:

                        http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...&postcount=143
                        I had a read but you'll have to forgive my cynicism when 75% of my evaluations have been wiped.

                        Just to be clear as well, I'm not saying the Black List is dodgy or Franklin is ripping people off or any rot like that. He's got a really good business model going that's a success and getting writers exposure. There's nothing like that here in Australia, not even close. I just think the Black List has a consistency problem from my own personal experiences.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                          Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                          Franklin has talked about it before. He's the reply I found where he said my 9 and 6 were part of the 4% of scripts with that big a spread:

                          http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...&postcount=143
                          That thread is a couple years old. I would be curious to know what the current stat is like.

                          I recently put up a script on BL and ordered 2 evals. Both came back at about the same time. One was an 8. The other was a 4. Needless to say it felt sort of bittersweet to get that automated email -- "Congrats! You got an 8!" -- and then log into the site and see the script's average score of 6.

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                          • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                            Franklin has talked about it before. He's the reply I found where he said my 9 and 6 were part of the 4% of scripts with that big a spread:

                            http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...&postcount=143
                            Jeff, (I find BL confusing) how'd you fake your pilot on there? I want to see if I can beat your score [i.e. score of 10 and 1. ] using the same undercover methods [I'll post my score here]. You changed the author's name and waited for two reads, or? I still don't totally get how BL works. Yes, I read the links, convoluted for my brain...

                            BTW the pilot in question: you sold it, or? What happened to it?
                            DOPE CITY

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                            • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                              Originally posted by jroger View Post
                              That thread is a couple years old. I would be curious to know what the current stat is like..
                              I pulled it after I ran the experiment.

                              Originally posted by surftatboy View Post
                              Jeff, (I find BL confusing) how'd you fake your pilot on there? I want to see if I can beat your score [i.e. score of 10 and 1. ] using the same undercover methods [I'll post my score here]. You changed the author's name and waited for two reads, or? I still don't totally get how BL works. Yes, I read the links, convoluted for my brain...

                              BTW the pilot in question: you sold it, or? What happened to it?
                              The whole story is in the linked thread.

                              It came close a couple of times, but never got made, sadly. By its nature, it only had about three possible buyers, and once they passed, that was it.

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                              • Re: Overexposed on Blacklist?

                                Is it sad that starting this thread is the most popular writing I've ever done?

                                I kid, I kid.

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