What to Say to Writers...?

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  • #31
    Re: What to Say to Writers...?

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    For a true writer "money- is secondary. If anyone is writing screenplays because their primary passion is money, then they will certainly fail.

    The "means to an end- (as you say) for me is the joy and satisfaction of a completed screenplay. The joy I had writing the characters, bringing out the emotions, the conflict, the humor, the exhilarating action, etc.

    Sure, I'd like to see it produced and see my story come alive on screen, but I'm okay if it doesn't. I'm not gonna fall to pieces in despair.

    I will stop writing screenplays when it is no longer a joy for me. Not because I didn't make any money.
    No offense, Joe. This sounds like the POV of a hobbyist.

    I tabled screenwriting for now because I know the in-progress stories I want to write are not commercial and/or are better suited to prose fiction. Yet I already have a marketing strategy in mind.

    If I think of a concept suited for the screen, I'll switch back. And I'll query the script to reps when I feel it's in good shape.

    The drive to write is to put it out into the world because the writer has something to say. Money is the confirmation that the world appreciates what you have to say.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #32
      Re: What to Say to Writers...?

      Originally posted by Satriales View Post

      But pretending there is some moral high ground for being in it for "the art- is a load of bs, IMO.
      I'm not implying that one has to pretend.

      My point wasn't about some "moral high ground." My point was about "passion." I believe if someone's primary motivation to write is passion -- not secondary to money -- his work will show it.

      And if he happens not to make any money after he completes his screenplay, he's not gonna be so devastated because money wasn't his primary motivation to write.

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      • #33
        Re: What to Say to Writers...?

        I think I'm with you on this one, Satriales. Writing is tough. Frustrating at times. Stressful is an understatement but it is very rewarding once you have something ready to market.

        My goal is to get the writing done as quickly as possible. To move onto the next one.

        Figment, I totally agree with you. Opinions can vary a lot. That's why it's helpful to get as many notes as possible. Some writers are better at notes than other writers. But sometimes there is ONE SINGLE shinning gem of a comment that changes your entire POV of your story. You are the one that has the power to implement a note or discard it.(did I read her comment on another thread? seems to be gone)

        Lostfootage, that's a great story.

        I learned early on to read notes then set them aside for a day or two, then go back to them and read them again. For me, it gives me time to digest the notes and upon returning to them, I am better able to be objective about what the note is saying and what it's not saying.

        JeffLowell, I agree with you, we do need to learn how to TAKE notes.

        I go into reading notes with the thought that this person has taken their time away from their life to help me. It is a very generous thing to do. I may not agree with every note, but I am grateful for their time and effort.
        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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        • #34
          Re: What to Say to Writers...?

          Originally posted by sc111 View Post

          No offense, Joe. This sounds like the POV of a hobbyist. ... Money is the confirmation that the world appreciates what you have to say.
          sc111, your "money" comment reminds me of Gordon Gekko, "Greed is good."

          I don't look at a money value to feel my work is appreciated. When I was a newbie and my first script advanced in a screenplay competition against 3,000 entries from my peers, I felt great that my work was appreciated enough to advanced. It gave me confidence. It gave me strength.

          I'm not a hobbyist. I take the craft and business of screenwriting very seriously.

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          • #35
            Re: What to Say to Writers...?

            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
            Figment, I totally agree with you. Opinions can vary a lot. That's why it's helpful to get as many notes as possible. Some writers are better at notes than other writers. But sometimes there is ONE SINGLE shinning gem of a comment that changes your entire POV of your story. You are the one that has the power to implement a note or discard it.(did I read her comment on another thread? seems to be gone)
            Sorry -- I felt like I was derailing the thread by giving personal examples, so I deleted it.

            My overall point was that note givers connect/or fail-to-connect with a script for different reasons, and in that vein, telling someone they should stop writing isn't up to a note giver. That's something a writer should figure out for themselves.

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            • #36
              Re: What to Say to Writers...?

              Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
              I'm not implying that one has to pretend.

              My point wasn't about some "moral high ground." My point was about "passion." I believe if someone's primary motivation to write is passion -- not secondary to money -- his work will show it.

              And if he happens not to make any money after he completes his screenplay, he's not gonna be so devastated because money wasn't his primary motivation to write.
              To me this sounds like an unprovable/unknowable theory.

              I'm sure you couldn't tell based on my pages what my primary motivation is.

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              • #37
                Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                Originally posted by Satriales View Post
                To me this sounds like an unprovable/unknowable theory.

                I’m sure you couldn’t tell based on my pages what my primary motivation is.
                Agree. People marvel at the art of the Sistine Chapel forgetting that for Michelangelo it was a paid, contracted gig. IIRC, he was competing with DaVinci for the gig.

                Whether or not a work rises to the level of "art" is really determined by the world, not the person who created it. And what does the world do? It assigns a monetary value to that which it deems to be "art."

                You have a skill set that has monetary value. In my opinion, money as a motivation drives you to be a better writer than your competition.


                Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                sc111, your "money" comment reminds me of Gordon Gekko, "Greed is good."

                I don't look at a money value to feel my work is appreciated. When I was a newbie and my first script advanced in a screenplay competition against 3,000 entries from my peers, I felt great that my work was appreciated enough to advanced. It gave me confidence. It gave me strength.

                I'm not a hobbyist. I take the craft and business of screenwriting very seriously.
                Yet the contest had a cash prize, no?

                If you take it seriously, at what point do you query reps? At what point do you put it out into the world of commerce?

                The intersection of creative pursuits and commerce can be a scary thing.

                Because rejection can burst one's "I am a writer" bubble. And people have to self assess their talent and ability with clarity to cross that intersection.

                To bring this back to giving notes -- I rarely read people's scripts any more.

                In the past, I found the vast majority don't want to hear they're not "there" yet. Or, that they have to read many pro scripts to figure out why they work as a way of getting "there." Or, that they have to actually appreciate the work of pros -- not nitpick a produced script, "I don't think it was that great," something I heard a lot when I suggested scripts to read.

                To me, an inability to see why a produced script works is a clear sign of a NON-writer.
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                • #38
                  Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                  Originally posted by Prezzy View Post
                  I think when giving a critique, it is important to point out what in the piece was working or what you liked about about a piece while pointing out what you think needs improvement and giving your overall assessment, even if it's really bad.
                  I know I'm guilty of that - but you know that 100% of the time, if you say one nice thing about a horrible screenplay, that will be the only comment the writer remembers.

                  Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                  For a true writer “money” is secondary. If anyone is writing screenplays because their primary passion is money, then they will certainly fail.
                  You are writing a screenplay that you yourself have described as "formulaic" and "derivative," believing that that gives it a better chance of being sold/made. If the joy to you is the journey and not the destination, then go with your passion! Write something that's your voice, even if you think it doesn't have a chance of ever selling. I swear to you that more of those scripts get attention for their writers.

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                  • #39
                    Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                    Originally posted by sc111 View Post

                    Yet the contest had a cash prize, no?
                    It had a cash prize, yes.

                    Money is not why I would choose a contest. I would choose a contest on whether or not it has a cache with Industry people. If a contest had industry judges that would be a good fit for the screenplay I had.

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                    • #40
                      Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                      Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post

                      You are writing a screenplay that you yourself have described as "formulaic" and "derivative," believing that gives it a better chance of being sold/made.

                      If the joy to you is the journey and not the destination, then go with your passion!
                      I admitted that readers may find my teen romantic comedy formulaic and derivative, but I never said it will give the script a "better chance of being sold/made."

                      But, Jeff, with that said, you know there have been "formulaic" and "derivative" screenplays that are produced and become commercial successes, especially in the genre of romantic comedies.

                      The "journey" that I talk about IS to a happy destination. Be it a completed screenplay. Or, a contest winner. Or, a produced movie. Or, just from a professional industry person who read my script and said: "Job well done. I enjoyed it."
                      Last edited by JoeNYC; 10-01-2020, 11:41 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                        It had a cash prize, yes.

                        Money is not why I would choose a contest. I would choose a contest on whether or not it has a cache with Industry people. If a contest had industry judges that would be a good fit for the screenplay I had.
                        I'll repeat the questions you ignored: at what point do you query reps? At what point do you put it out into the world of commerce?
                        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                          I used to write for fun and because I loved it. That's still there -- but I wouldn't still be writing screenplays unless there was some reward in there -- money or hopes one day my words would be spoken by actors.

                          If I just wanted to write for me -- boy would my screenplays be a lot more fun. At least to me.

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                          • #43
                            Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                            I'll repeat the questions you ignored: at what point do you query reps? At what point do you put it out into the world of commerce?
                            I would query reps only if I had a high concept screenplay. If it wasn't high concept, I would try to get some heat attached to it by entering it into the big contests and hope for a finalist, or win. I would put the screenplay out in the public eye, or on a marketing site like the Black List. Imagine Impact is a new road to Hollywood that recently became available.

                            But, most importantly, I would begin developing my next screenplay. You never know what the right script will be that would connect with someone.

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                            • #44
                              Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                              Originally posted by Bono View Post
                              I used to write for fun and because I loved it. That's still there -- but I wouldn't still be writing screenplays unless there was some reward in there -- money or hopes one day my words would be spoken by actors.

                              If I just wanted to write for me -- boy would my screenplays be a lot more fun. At least to me.
                              Maybe I'm just wired differently -- for me, "love," "fun," "joy," "happiness" have nothing to do with my writing process. The best way I can describe mine is cathartic -- emotionally and psychologically.

                              However, I do love reading the work of other writers and reading a well-written story does make me happy.

                              Before my eyes take in word one, I'm ready and willing to be seduced and swept away by a skilled writer. And when that doesn't happen because the writer has spewed trite, worn-out tropes and/or is simply unable to write a coherent tale, I'm pissed off.

                              Maybe that's why I shouldn't give notes on scripts. Bad writing makes me angry.
                              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: What to Say to Writers...?

                                Originally posted by Satriales View Post

                                I'm sure you couldn't tell based on my pages what my primary motivation is.
                                For the majority of writers, who take up writing screenplays for a big payday, where it's not because of the love for writing, their work on the pages will show this.

                                When Aaron Sorkin picked up a pen and wrote stories at the age of ten, he didn't do it because money was his primary motivation. He did it because he found it enjoyable. Later, when he learned you can make a living at something you enjoy doing, then he thought -- great! It's icing on the cake.

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