The Black List from a user perspective

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  • #46
    Re: The Black List from a user perspective

    Originally posted by Kremlin View Post
    To clarify -- I was an amateur before the site launched. I had worked for a financier, and done a research project or two for Franklin, but none of those people read MCCARTHY before it was submitted for a paid read. I was too intimidated to show it to them. On October 19th, the day I submitted the script, I was sitting on my couch in Long Island, NY with nothing to do. My writing career had literally no traction, I was unemployed, and wondering where my life was headed. I was not a semi-pro in any sense of the word. Nobody gave a **** about my script. This site changed everything, and it will continue to do so for the droves of talented writers that have uploaded their scripts. I truly believe that.
    I think the point the other posters is making is this - despite your writing career having no traction - turns out you're a literary virtuoso on some level. He don't like that.

    As someone watching this Black List thing from the outside - hearing about it from friends - I think the big wake up call with it is writers having the face the fact that their script has been rated a '5' or a '6' or a '7' - it might be good, but it's not great. And it's not going anywhere. They haven't written a compelling script. And this service isn't going to help them anymore than being a quarter-finalist in some contest would.

    Had you not submitted to the Black List, certainly your script would have still found a way in. It just happened faster this way. You didn't have to wait six months for results from the Nicholl, etc.

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    • #47
      Re: The Black List from a user perspective

      Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
      I think the point the other posters is making is this - despite your writing career having no traction - turns out you're a literary virtuoso on some level. He don't like that.

      As someone watching this Black List thing from the outside - hearing about it from friends - I think the big wake up call with it is writers having the face the fact that their script has been rated a '5' or a '6' or a '7' - it might be good, but it's not great. And it's not going anywhere. They haven't written a compelling script. And this service isn't going to help them anymore than being a quarter-finalist in some contest would.

      Had you not submitted to the Black List, certainly your script would have still found a way in. It just happened faster this way. You didn't have to wait six months for results from the Nicholl, etc.
      Far from a virtuoso, but I appreciate that. I honestly don't know that the script would have found a way. I already sent queries to multiple management companies, all of whom didn't respond. It also made its way to a few production companies on the rare occasion my query sparked interest. Nothing, still. It appeared to have no life, and wouldn't without the site.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: The Black List from a user perspective

        Though I didn't get discovered via The Black List service (because it didn't exist at the time), I understand painfully well the despair you feel when you know that you wrote something special and query only to be met be the resounding silence of indifference.

        That's why I'm so glad that MCCARTHY got discovered through a new system that then creating a feeding frenzy in Hollywood. As much as I know that Justin will steal my writing opportunities, I am also so happy that a talented writer like him doesn't have to toil in obscurity when his voice needs to be heard.

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        • #49
          Re: The Black List from a user perspective

          Originally posted by Kremlin View Post
          This site changed everything, and it will continue to do so for the droves of talented writers that have uploaded their scripts. I truly believe that.
          I sincerely hope so as well. And congrats again on finding a rep. I'm just a tad disillusioned from my experience with competing script services. I submitted one to script-a-wish and got back: "OMG! This is like The Fifth Element, but 5x better! I'll be sending this to Bard Dorros!" And, naturally, they proceeded to brutally shun my follow-up e-mails.

          Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
          I think the point the other posters is making is this - despite your writing career having no traction - turns out you're a literary virtuoso on some level. He don't like that.
          LOL. I'm thrilled that he's a literary virtuoso. In fact, I'm the last person to be envious of another's literary achievements. My dad was nominated for a Nobel Prize in literature in 2000. And my sis's first romance novel was spoofed on the Colbert Report. And I've yet to upload my script, so this isn't about spite.
          I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: The Black List from a user perspective

            If people would just consult DDP before spending any money they'd save themselves a lot of hassle. FoxHound, there are legitimate businesses out there, and there are scams. This is one of the legitimate businesses. What you got before was a scam.

            Never be afraid to ask. We will tell you who to avoid and who to trust.
            Chicks Who Script podcast

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: The Black List from a user perspective

              Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
              My dad was nominated for a Nobel Prize in literature in 2000.
              Is it 2050 already? I thought the nominations for 2000 were sealed until then.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                If people would just consult DDP before spending any money they'd save themselves a lot of hassle. FoxHound, there are legitimate businesses out there, and there are scams. This is one of the legitimate businesses. What you got before was a scam.

                Never be afraid to ask. We will tell you who to avoid and who to trust.
                That was before I joined DD pro.

                Originally posted by goldmund View Post
                Is it 2050 already? I thought the nominations for 2000 were sealed until then.
                Actually, I got it wrong. It was 2002, not 2000. I'm so ashamed. But I know for sure he was recommended in '02 for his anti-genocide works during the Yugoslavian ethnic cleansing campaign of the 90's. He always tells me he was officially nominated, though. That's confidence for ya.

                Or he's got a man on the inside.
                I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                  I like the idea of having a WRITER'S PAGE listing all the scripts each writer has on the site.

                  Don't know if Franklin is familiar with the Amazon Studios set up, but they had it so each writer had his/her own page listing all their scripts, an avatar/pic, bio info, etc... It gave a face to the writer so they weren't so anonymous or generic. And from there it linked to the individual scripts. Writers created their own loglines & a limited word synopsis. The synopsis gave the writer a better opportunity to "pitch" the script to potential readers.

                  If this seems like a lot of extra work... Maybe you could have it so only certain writers get a page, say writers with 3 or more scripts on the site or have an average of 7 or above for their scripts. Only the "best customers" & most talented would get a pg. Make it something of a reward.

                  The idea behind promoting writers, as well as scripts, is that maybe a writer hasn't written that ONE GREAT SEXY script everyone loves, but still has some ability & has written some solid material... or is great at a certain skill, like dialogue or set pieces, but hasn't put it all together in 1 script yet.

                  My 2 centavos.

                  "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                  ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                    Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                    If people would just consult DDP before spending any money they'd save themselves a lot of hassle. FoxHound, there are legitimate businesses out there, and there are scams. This is one of the legitimate businesses. What you got before was a scam.
                    There is still much room for improvement. I'm looking forward to seeing how that all pans out.
                    All the best,
                    Lee
                    __________________________________
                    I'm not just a screenwriter...
                    I also write and illustrate picture books!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                      Originally posted by stvnlra View Post
                      I like the idea of having a WRITER'S PAGE listing all the scripts each writer has on the site.

                      Don't know if Franklin is familiar with the Amazon Studios set up, but they had it so each writer had his/her own page listing all their scripts, an avatar/pic, bio info, etc... It gave a face to the writer so they weren't so anonymous or generic. And from there it linked to the individual scripts. Writers created their own loglines & a limited word synopsis. The synopsis gave the writer a better opportunity to "pitch" the script to potential readers.

                      If this seems like a lot of extra work... Maybe you could have it so only certain writers get a page, say writers with 3 or more scripts on the site or have an average of 7 or above for their scripts. Only the "best customers" & most talented would get a pg. Make it something of a reward.

                      The idea behind promoting writers, as well as scripts, is that maybe a writer hasn't written that ONE GREAT SEXY script everyone loves, but still has some ability & has written some solid material... or is great at a certain skill, like dialogue or set pieces, but hasn't put it all together in 1 script yet.

                      My 2 centavos.
                      I like the thought of each writer having a customizable page in the vein of social networks but I'm not sure how many writers will have multiple scripts up for any extended time to utilize such a feature. That would get expensive, and there comes a point when you have to pull a script down if it doesn't get enough traction to justify the monthly rent even if it receives strong ratings.

                      I'm not sure if it would be worth the time to make such features since scripts should be coming and going so frequently on the site. I think every writer has an idea how long she/he is willing to give their work before pulling the plug and trying another script -- or going a different route altogether.

                      I do think it would be a great option to be able to go to a writer's page and see what past scripts they had uploaded and their ratings -- if the writer chose to make those viewable. It should be required that the writer must have at least one script active on the site to make past scripts and ratings viewable -- but they should not be available for download unless paying the site rent for that particular script. Producers, reps, and managers interested in old scripts would have to contact the writer(s) directly. Maybe this could make a personalized page as you suggest possible and worthwhile.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                        Has anyone else, (besides from Kremlin), with a high score had any interest from reps or been signed?

                        How many scripts are there with high scores -- 8, 9, 10??


                        Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                          Loved the article!!!

                          In fact, I was so inspired that I uploaded my script the very day I finished reading Lee's article... and the 12,000 (or so) posts about BL3 -- it was like taking a cross-country road trip!

                          Great fun being part of this whole process!!

                          But I have a question.

                          I uploaded my script and paid for two reads. This was on Nov. 28th. I figured it would be (as indicated) 2-3 weeks before I got a read. No problem.

                          On that first day I had a dozen Impressions -- par for the course, right?, in that my script was new to the site.

                          Then nothing since. No Impressions. I wrote a nice logline but I figured my script was unrated and one of more than 5,000, and with no buzz.

                          Not a problem. I was figuring my two ratings, from paid raids, would generate heat (if there ever was going to be any.)

                          Well, over the weekend I had five downloads. FIVE? Okay, two are probably the paid reads but three others without a posted rating and no other Impressions since day one? Hmmmm.... could it be that the paid readers downloaded it a couple of times?

                          I'm probably reading too much into it -- there must be a simple explanation -- maybe I didn't upload the script correctly and nobody can download it? But you'd think I'd get an email about that...

                          Anyone have a similar experience?
                          The better part of valor is discretion, in the which better part I have saved my life. (Henry IV. Part I: Shakespeare)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                            Originally posted by Stevie Keynes View Post
                            Has anyone else, (besides from Kremlin), with a high score had any interest from reps or been signed?

                            How many scripts are there with high scores -- 8, 9, 10??


                            Thanks
                            Franklin was answering questions on Twitter yesterday and stated, that while writers are not required to tell the Blacklist if they've had any industry contact, he knows there are several conversations going on...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                              Originally posted by Stevie Keynes View Post
                              Has anyone else, (besides from Kremlin), with a high score had any interest from reps or been signed?

                              How many scripts are there with high scores -- 8, 9, 10??


                              Thanks
                              Stevie, I can only speak from my own experience here, but I received an 8 for my first review, which got a lot of reads and interest from managers when I queried with the score. (I was hoping for this effect because I don't have a commercial logline.) I got a few referrals and even a phone call from one manager who loved it. About the worst response I received beyond that was, "This one's not for me, but I really enjoyed the writing. What else do you have?" So ... my initial 8 seemed to be very helpful, even if I haven't been offered management yet.

                              Unfortunately, I received my second review yesterday to find it was a 4, in stark contrast to the previous review; however, that's just the nature of subjectivity, and the bottom line is just that the reader didn't like it. Of course, this destroys the script's chances of being highlighted on the site, so my next move is clearly to take it down. While I do believe a 4 is an unfairly low score for this particular script, there is no factual basis for arguing the merits of an artistic endeavor. Where I do have a problem, though, is that the reader decided to take a stab at my script with an entirely irrelevant, yet poignant rim shot of a quote to finish off his review in the most self-indulgent manner possible. And, as any writer should realize, self-indulgent prose is about the least flattering way of putting words on the page, especially when the paying customer on the other end is subject to a non-existent policy that governs the period of time in which the reader has to complete his or her task. Essentially, the meter was running, and my reader was using the time to amuse himself by concocting a witty, irrelevant closing line for his atrocious review. In accordance with how the site is intended to work, his review should have been limited to providing industry pros the info/scores they need to decide whether or not they want to look at the script. The reader felt the low score and bad review was not sufficient to convey the poor quality of the writer's work, or perhaps even deemed the writer's inferior intellect would prevent him from truly understanding where a 4 falls on the 1 - 10 scoring system, so he indulged in a very sad and primitive form of self-deification and stuck it to me as God of his tiny universe. I'm sincerely glad he enjoyed himself, and perhaps he will again, many times over, as he precludes any future business from other annoyed writers who have no time for getting slapped in the face by a big hand reaching down from a very high horse.

                              With that said, however, I'd encourage writers to try the service for themselves. I've made some very positive comments about BL elsewhere here on DD, and I stand by by them, regardless of what I've written here.

                              One area I think needs to be cleaned up a bit is the nature of the scoring. Because subjectivity can be so unreasonable, it's extremely important to have standards for what constitutes a particular score. One could easily argue that a 7 to one person might be a 3 or a 9 to others, which is true, but comments like the following are completely illogical and unacceptable when paired with their scores, "The dialogue is maintained at a professional level throughout." That was the comment by my reader, yet the score was a 6. As the community average for script ratings on the site is nearly 7, how is a 6 indicative of professional quality, especially when the Black List aims to adhere to the highest standards? On the same note, a previous review of that script had the dialogue rated as an 8, with the reader dubbing it as "extremely strong." 8 out of 10 is equivalent to 80% of the highest possible score. Subjectivity considered, this does not qualify as "extremely strong." I mention these scoring "errors" because there are numerous examples of the same thing being reported by other writers. It's really this simple for me: Whether the scores come back as 10s or 1s, they should maintain a solid level of consistency when compared to the comments. Otherwise, the writer is left somewhat baffled, and the notion of, "Well, the reader just didn't like it," isn't quite enough to satisfy anybody but the people who didn't pay for the read, nor is it a very promising way of acquiring repeat business.

                              In my short travels in the industry so far, people have said plenty of things to me that I found insulting or irrelevant, but they came from the mouths of managers, directors, producers, etc. ... people to whom I did not pay one dime, people who did not owe me the level-headed, objective consideration I expect when I shell out my hard-earned money.

                              To a certain extent, there was some strong sentiment on the huge BL thread that the writers who receive low scores need to go take a look in the mirror, that they need to realize and accept that their scripts are not even close to being great. I find it amusing that intelligent people immersed in this industry are willing to blindly dismiss major contest winners and finalists as bad writers who need to wake up and smell the coffee on the basis of one bad read, unless their intention was truly just to defend the integrity of the BL service. This essentially means that I should ignore the praise and attention of managers the script has garnered for itself and my other screenplays, in favor of metaphorically bowing down and admitting my impotence in the face of failure by heading back to square one on the drawing board ... just because one faceless reader said so. I should find a way to detach the director from my contained thriller, and thwart the efforts of the other director who'd like to get involved if/when the project turns around. These people must be insane, and they should be stopped immediately to prevent them from trying to bring such garbage into the world. I'm joking here, of course, but just as a measure of how silly it would be to take a single opinion to heart. I mean, seriously, this industry is so subjective that some people go nuts over scripts that others wouldn't even use as toilet paper. People brag incessantly about being involved in the making of projects that others wouldn't even bother to watch if someone else paid to rent it for them on Redbox. When the reality is that no one is going to lift a finger to help you unless they "connect" with your material (ahem), and almost everything results in a 'no', whether you're a pro or amateur, accepting one person's opinion as fact is far worse than potentially being delusional about the quality of the product you're bringing to the table. At some point, a bad/delusional writer realizes he or she isn't any good, and the choice then is simply to quit or continue for the love of the game. Unfortunately, in a business where loglines are thrown around like currency, the majority of the advice an aspiring writer receives contradicts the importance of this fact. Rewriting is king, not to be f****d with by anybody, so what we end up with is the guy who's working on his 35th rewrite of a contest-winning script he wrote in 2005 because a paid analyst told him he's on the verge of finding the "real" story. Here's the truth: If you have an outstanding, high-concept, commercial idea combined with an even remotely competent execution, you might just find yourself with a winning ticket. I know of not one manager who looks at a script and says, "I immediately see the potential for a bidding war and $400m worldwide box office with this concept, but I'm going to pass because the protagonist's character arc needs to be a little smoother across the latter half of the second act." We're all truly swimming in a world of BS here, and it's the reason William Goldman became just as famous for "Nobody Knows Anything" as he did for his great writing.

                              I fully acknowledge my ignorance as an outsider trying to break down the door, but it's not that difficult to look at the trades and confirm that I equal the average number of sales as most insiders (reps or writers) on a yearly basis: zero. That's absolutely not intended to be a knock against any person or group, especially given the scarce nature of spec sales, but just to serve testament to the fact that "expert" advice is often dumped over the amateur side of the castle wall with the intention of being a hot-tar wake-up rooted in irrefutable fact, when in reality the situation can be simply understood by just looking at what's playing at the box office and how much money the films are making. There's this ridiculous volley of amateurs asserting that so many bad scripts are made, that they could do better, with pros then coming back at them to try to convince the poor, ignorant souls that every movie in Hollywood starts as a great script until the evil people at the studios lay their hands on it. Please. While it's commonly known and accepted that this is an unavoidable, extremely unpleasant part of the development process that often renders a script of lesser quality, it is still absolutely clear as day that Hollywood deals regularly with scripts that range from great to terrible. To assert that the bottom line is relevant to anything other than marketability is ridiculous.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                                Originally posted by Happy Camper View Post
                                Loved the article!!!

                                In fact, I was so inspired that I uploaded my script the very day I finished reading Lee's article... and the 12,000 (or so) posts about BL3 -- it was like taking a cross-country road trip!

                                Great fun being part of this whole process!!

                                But I have a question.

                                I uploaded my script and paid for two reads. This was on Nov. 28th. I figured it would be (as indicated) 2-3 weeks before I got a read. No problem.

                                On that first day I had a dozen Impressions -- par for the course, right?, in that my script was new to the site.

                                Then nothing since. No Impressions. I wrote a nice logline but I figured my script was unrated and one of more than 5,000, and with no buzz.

                                Not a problem. I was figuring my two ratings, from paid raids, would generate heat (if there ever was going to be any.)

                                Well, over the weekend I had five downloads. FIVE? Okay, two are probably the paid reads but three others without a posted rating and no other Impressions since day one? Hmmmm.... could it be that the paid readers downloaded it a couple of times?

                                I'm probably reading too much into it -- there must be a simple explanation -- maybe I didn't upload the script correctly and nobody can download it? But you'd think I'd get an email about that...

                                Anyone have a similar experience?
                                I'm really glad you mentioned this. In addition to one other poster in the main BL thread that I noticed, I too received that string of three downloads with no accompanying impressions. I assumed it was just some type of glitch or similar, and I never pursued an explanation because it just didn't seem to be a big deal. Nothing was affected by it either way, but it would be interesting to know what that is.

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