Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

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  • Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

    Hi all. I have a question for you. Here's the backdrop:

    I'm meeting with managers and other industry folks on feature stuff. In asking what they are up to, one said he's repping a comedy writer that just got a series on a cable channel. Another has a guy with the same thing and another client w/ bigger stuff. A third handles the biggest sitcoms in prime today. (Me mixing w/ the last guy was a fluke... but maybe they all were )

    Anyway, awhile back I had an idea for a sitcom. I worked out the story, the settings, the characters. I created a baby series 'bible':
    Opening cuts- one page
    Setting Background- two pages
    Continuing Characters- one page
    Individual bios on Continuing Major Characters (two) - two pages each
    Individual Bios on Continuing Support Characters- one page each)
    Outlines of ten future episodes- one page each

    I then approached a couple (married) w/ a bg in comedy... theatre, improve, and a ton of spec sitcom scripts w/ no sales. Very fast on feet.

    The problem: I'm not a comedy writer. (ok no smart remarks)

    We brainstormed the pilot. They wrote it, utilizing the bible. Very good work. I suggested a recurring end-of-episode closing theme utilizing a new character that I suggested we imbed in the script. Fine. Done. By them.

    I couldn't help myself. I pitched the thing since these mngrs have the tie-ins. They want to read. They're sending me the releases and I'm going to get the writer's sigs...

    My question: What position/stake should I have if this ever makes it thru the hoops? (super-duper-long-shot) Whatever it is is fine with me... as I did not write it. It is what it is. I have no desire/illusion to be a sitcom writer. Ever. Any blessings my pals get outta this would put me in heaven.
    Where do I stand on credits... participation etc? In or out?

    This is how it is on the spec title page.

    '......' by THEM and under that 'Concept BY' ME.

    Any input would be most welcome. I know very very very little on tv stuff.
    Doth thou desirest a slapping? - William Shakespeare

  • #2
    Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

    Originally posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi all. I have a question for you. Here's the backdrop:

    I'm meeting with managers and other industry folks on feature stuff. In asking what they are up to, one said he's repping a comedy writer that just got a series on a cable channel. Another has a guy with the same thing and another client w/ bigger stuff. A third handles the biggest sitcoms in prime today. (Me mixing w/ the last guy was a fluke... but maybe they all were )

    Anyway, awhile back I had an idea for a sitcom. I worked out the story, the settings, the characters. I created a baby series 'bible':
    Opening cuts- one page
    Setting Background- two pages
    Continuing Characters- one page
    Individual bios on Continuing Major Characters (two) - two pages each
    Individual Bios on Continuing Support Characters- one page each)
    Outlines of ten future episodes- one page each

    I then approached a couple (married) w/ a bg in comedy... theatre, improve, and a ton of spec sitcom scripts w/ no sales. Very fast on feet.

    The problem: I'm not a comedy writer. (ok no smart remarks)

    We brainstormed the pilot. They wrote it, utilizing the bible. Very good work. I suggested a recurring end-of-episode closing theme utilizing a new character that I suggested we imbed in the script. Fine. Done. By them.

    I couldn't help myself. I pitched the thing since these mngrs have the tie-ins. They want to read. They're sending me the releases and I'm going to get the writer's sigs...

    My question: What position/stake should I have if this ever makes it thru the hoops? (super-duper-long-shot) Whatever it is is fine with me... as I did not write it. It is what it is. I have no desire/illusion to be a sitcom writer. Ever. Any blessings my pals get outta this would put me in heaven.
    Where do I stand on credits... participation etc? In or out?

    This is how it is on the spec title page.

    '......' by THEM and under that 'Concept BY' ME.

    Any input would be most welcome. I know very very very little on tv stuff.

    If they actually wrote the script, I would think that you would get story credit, and they would get the writing credits. I'm not exactly sure how the WGA governs "story by" credit as it relates to "creator" credits on a pilot... you should probably check with the credits department to be sure. But if you're not a sitcom writer and have absolutely no interest in becoming a sitcom writer, I'm not sure credit as one of the writers would be appropriate, given the circumstances, or of much use to you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

      I think for simplicity's sake you should call yourself an Executive Producer. It's a common title in TV for someone who has developed a show in a non-writing capacity. I don't see that any kind of story credit applies, you may eventually get bumped down to "Developed for television by" or something like that.

      Because the writers wrote the pilot, they are the creators of the show, but because they used a bible that you wrote, you're protected. (Though to be honest, I've not heard of a situations where the writer of a bible and the writer of a pilot are different, so maybe that could change). The MBA has a specific minimum set for writing a bible, so as you go forward, you could ask to have the bible purchased as a way of getting yourself paid, in addition to the purchase price of the pilot.

      But as other people have pointed out, selling a spec pilot is tough, and even tougher for those who have no track record in TV. On the bright side, there seems to be a feeling this year that with less development money available and fewer writers on overall deals, there's more opportunity for spec scripts than n previous years.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

        Originally posted by jimjimgrande View Post
        I think for simplicity's sake you should call yourself an Executive Producer. It's a common title in TV for someone who has developed a show in a non-writing capacity. I don't see that any kind of story credit applies, you may eventually get bumped down to "Developed for television by" or something like that.
        Executive Producers in television tend to be the showrunners. Someone who helped develop it but doesn't oversee the production would most likely have some sort of a producer title, but probably not the Executive.


        Because the writers wrote the pilot, they are the creators of the show, but because they used a bible that you wrote, you're protected. (Though to be honest, I've not heard of a situations where the writer of a bible and the writer of a pilot are different, so maybe that could change). The MBA has a specific minimum set for writing a bible, so as you go forward, you could ask to have the bible purchased as a way of getting yourself paid, in addition to the purchase price of the pilot.

        I know that in the case of Charles in Charge, one of the two creators and writers of the series bible is not credited on IMDB. She was paid for it, but since she didn't actually write any of the episodes, it seems they didn't need to give her credit. Oddly enough, she is listed on some other online sources.
        QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

          Originally posted by jimjimgrande View Post
          I think for simplicity's sake you should call yourself an Executive Producer. It's a common title in TV for someone who has developed a show in a non-writing capacity. I don't see that any kind of story credit applies, you may eventually get bumped down to "Developed for television by" or something like that.

          Because the writers wrote the pilot, they are the creators of the show, but because they used a bible that you wrote, you're protected. (Though to be honest, I've not heard of a situations where the writer of a bible and the writer of a pilot are different, so maybe that could change). The MBA has a specific minimum set for writing a bible, so as you go forward, you could ask to have the bible purchased as a way of getting yourself paid, in addition to the purchase price of the pilot.

          But as other people have pointed out, selling a spec pilot is tough, and even tougher for those who have no track record in TV. On the bright side, there seems to be a feeling this year that with less development money available and fewer writers on overall deals, there's more opportunity for spec scripts than n previous years.
          Hi jjG.

          I was hoping to get your take. Thanks.

          Yes... kinda strange circumstance, writing the bible but not the pilot. It would seem to tie me inextricably to the project... to what extent I don't know.

          I'm not clear though j. Because I wrote the bible I'm protected. Protected in what manner and to what extent?

          So that when the mngrs ask exactly what my role in this is... how do you suggest I would answer that? Exec Prod? And just exactly would I convey that, fairly, I would expect to get outta this thing?

          I do realize that TV sitcoms are such a incredibly closed shop and almost impenetrable. That's one of the reasons I never pursued it... but that idea was gnawing at me and so I put it together. Pie-in-the-sky longshot.

          I never dreamed I'd be chatting with these cats. I'm now thinking who knows... these guys rep showrunners and in one of my insane dreams they pass it to one of their boys and they take a sniff. The script was just sitting on the shelf cause I didn't want to face the daunting task of getting beat down. But since these guys are willing to read...

          There appears to be some really sharp tv peeps on this board. What a resource. Terrific site. Well done DD.

          Thanks JJGrand. You are outstanding.
          Doth thou desirest a slapping? - William Shakespeare

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

            Originally posted by Knaight View Post
            Executive Producers in television tend to be the showrunners. Someone who helped develop it but doesn't oversee the production would most likely have some sort of a producer title, but probably not the Executive.

            I know that in the case of Charles in Charge, one of the two creators and writers of the series bible is not credited on IMDB. She was paid for it, but since she didn't actually write any of the episodes, it seems they didn't need to give her credit. Oddly enough, she is listed on some other online sources.
            Hi KghT.

            I'm listening intently.

            Regarding credit... I'm not looking for anything except what might be due... story by... concept by... I'll not be in that field anyway as It's just not where my interests and abilities lie. The compensation would be the coolest thing. It's been pointed out that the writers wrote the pilot... and as such are the 'creators'.

            So how to describe my involvement in this to those I submit to?
            I do love the ring of co-EP

            In the Charles scenario... did the 'creator' get that status by virtue of writing the pilot or by virtue of writing the bible? The lack of credit seems to suggest they may have been in a situation similar to mine. Didn't write a line. And believe me, as a writer, I wouldn't want/take writing credit for something I had not penned. But I'll gladly take dough for my part... whatever it is ultimately deemed to have been worth.
            Doth thou desirest a slapping? - William Shakespeare

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

              Originally posted by Charisma View Post

              In the Charles scenario... did the 'creator' get that status by virtue of writing the pilot or by virtue of writing the bible? The lack of credit seems to suggest they may have been in a situation similar to mine. Didn't write a line. And believe me, as a writer, I wouldn't want/take writing credit for something I had not penned. But I'll gladly take dough for my part... whatever it is ultimately deemed to have been worth.
              My understanding is that she developed the concept, wrote the Bible, and helped sell it. I don't believe she wrote any part of any episode.
              QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                Originally posted by Knaight View Post
                My understanding is that she developed the concept, wrote the Bible, and helped sell it. I don't believe she wrote any part of any episode.
                That would dovetail nicely to exactly the set of circumstances I find myself in.
                So no mention on the credits... story/concept by zero/zip/nada?

                Well as long as they know her at the bank.

                I wonder if that no credit was negotiated or if that is just the way the cookie crumbles in that scenario via the rules and standard in the industry.

                Thanks again so very much knghT
                Doth thou desirest a slapping? - William Shakespeare

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                  Originally posted by Charisma View Post
                  That would dovetail nicely to exactly the set of circumstances I find myself in.
                  So no mention on the credits... story/concept by zero/zip/nada?

                  Well as long as they know her at the bank.

                  I wonder if that no credit was negotiated or if that is just the way the cookie crumbles in that scenario via the rules and standard in the industry.

                  Thanks again so very much knghT
                  I don't think it's standard. The only reason I know this is because I spent a couple of days with this person last summer. It was recent enough that I remember some of the details, but far back enough that there are plenty that escape me.

                  The lack of credit may indeed have been negotiated. Not sure. I think in most cases any creator of a series will receive some kind of credit. I just wanted to point out that sometimes that's not the case.
                  QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                    i was told when meeting with a producer that if you're not a seasoned tv writer then she doesn't want a pilot from you. she needs a bible/writers' guidelines. then she could sell it by attaching a seasoned writer. she also said there is more money and less work as a show creator or executive producer, as stated above. so, i was like.... yesssss! b/c i don't really want to right tv episodes.
                    later after she passed... she told me it was good enough to take somewhere else so... i did write what i call a "sample" pilot to go with the proposal. then i did a cover of the TV Guide showcasing my new show.

                    seems like with so many cable channels doing their own scripted (and very edgy unlike network) tv shows that the market is really expanding.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                      C,

                      I would most definitely, unequivocally, insist on having your rep get you ampersand-coupled onto the hugely lucrative "Created by" team listing of credited initiators.

                      That credit, which will be seen prefacing every televised episode ad infinitum is enormously important and inarguably exactly pertinent regarding your contributions, whether ongoing or not. It's set in stone -- much to your remunerative benefit.

                      No one can dispute that you started the process, and the resulting residuals for so-credited individuals (episode writing or not) are lifechanging in the case of successful series that reach the magic number of televised episodes in a few years that qualify the series to be run by syndicating entities domestically and worldwide.

                      The creative work you put in got the whole thing rolling. No one can ignore your creation of the initial bible, the setting, many of the continuing and recurring characters, and those seminal 10 episode outlines -- whether all or any of them are specifically used or not

                      You get the respect in life that you demand (provided your efforts are respectworthy) and reluctance or either lack of confidence or lack of knowledge must be overcome. State want you want and what you know to be your due.

                      Get well beyond a message forum for this matter, amigo. Discuss what I've told you immediately with parties working towards your (Charisma's) interests -- an agent, manager, and/or entertainment attorney!!!!

                      Ernie

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                        Originally posted by Ernie Santamaria View Post
                        C,

                        I would most definitely, unequivocally, insist on having your rep get you ampersand-coupled onto the hugely lucrative "Created by" team listing of credited initiators.

                        That credit, which will be seen prefacing every televised episode ad infinitum is enormously important and inarguably exactly pertinent regarding your contributions, whether ongoing or not. It's set in stone -- much to your remunerative benefit.

                        No one can dispute that you started the process, and the resulting residuals for so-credited individuals (episode writing or not) are lifechanging in the case of successful series that reach the magic number of televised episodes in a few years that qualify the series to be run by syndicating entities domestically and worldwide.

                        The creative work you put in got the whole thing rolling. No one can ignore your creation of the initial bible, the setting, many of the continuing and recurring characters, and those seminal 10 episode outlines -- whether all or any of them are specifically used or not

                        You get the respect in life that you demand (provided your efforts are respectworthy) and reluctance or either lack of confidence or lack of knowledge must be overcome. State want you want and what you know to be your due.

                        Get well beyond a message forum for this matter, amigo. Discuss what I've told you immediately with parties working towards your (Charisma's) interests -- an agent, manager, and/or entertainment attorney!!!!

                        Ernie
                        Hi E. Now that's what I'm talking about. Music to my tender ears. You always have keen and razor-sharp insights. Invaluable ESM.

                        I do plead ignorance in the aforementioned matters but felt certain something was missing as I conceived of and developed the original idea.

                        So getting on the 'created by' team is the goal. Kinda like Larry David on the scale you speak of. I get that. Will insist on getting what's due.

                        I don't have an advocate as yet... I'm doing the query thing with mngrs... got a strong response for reads (yeah, big deal) and I also got a few requests from some top agents (it's just for a read... again, no big deal)

                        I'm on the cusp of approaching an Ent. Attorney as you suggested I do regarding that very big project I'm still wrestling with. Just waiting for that one other talent attachment to join in... Plan A still interested but moving slower than I want... so I implemented a fall-back plan B attachment that will still kill the rabbit. B wants in. Meeting to close those folks Thursday.

                        I've got 'stuff on the verge', but I'm not thinking the Ent. Attys are gonna welcome me with open arms so I'm waiting till I can go in with the package in hand. Lack of knowledge certainly a factor. Lack of confidence a dual-pronged proposition. Unbridled confidence in projects and my abilities? Yes. Lack of confidence on how some of this industry works and and trying not to screw up? Big yes.

                        Ernie... so very pleased to receive your thoughts and guidance. Once more you are right on the money. Thanks
                        Doth thou desirest a slapping? - William Shakespeare

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                          Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
                          i was told when meeting with a producer that if you're not a seasoned tv writer then she doesn't want a pilot from you. she needs a bible/writers' guidelines. then she could sell it by attaching a seasoned writer. she also said there is more money and less work as a show creator or executive producer, as stated above. so, i was like.... yesssss! b/c i don't really want to right tv episodes.
                          later after she passed... she told me it was good enough to take somewhere else so... i did write what i call a "sample" pilot to go with the proposal. then i did a cover of the TV Guide showcasing my new show.

                          seems like with so many cable channels doing their own scripted (and very edgy unlike network) tv shows that the market is really expanding.
                          Thanks Nike.

                          Yeah the road for newbie writer in tv land w/ a pilot no less is rugged but I do understand why they would want to entrust to seasoned peeps only and I also see why they would not even really want to look at stuff by outsiders... they have a ton of qualifieds in-house. But just hoping for a million to one script intro to a -s-runner that they already rep and take what I can get from there if lighnting ever strikes that needle in the haystack.
                          Doth thou desirest a slapping? - William Shakespeare

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                            All the variants of "Created by", "Idea by", "Based on a concept by", etc, are credits negotiated as part of your deal. If you came up with the idea and someone else wrote it and then you sell it and the network attaches a hotshot showrunner who rewrites it and who has a killer team negotiating for him, there's no guarantee you and your writers will get a credit at all. Paid, yes. Credit, no.

                            What I would do in your situation is maybe put "Story by You" and "Teleplay by Writing Team". (Even though, again, those are negotiated credits that could change if you sell the project.)

                            "Executive produced by" is definitely not the credit you want.

                            If you think there's a real shot of this project going somewhere, it's worth talking to an entertainment lawyer. You put work into this, but your writers wrote for free on an idea that isn't theirs. All of you should have your contribution protected.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Tv Sitcom Pilot... Creator Vs. Writer?

                              From the WGAw website (emphasis mine) -

                              13. "Created by"
                              A "Created by" credit shall be given on each episode of an episodic series or serial to the writer when such writer has separated rights and is entitled to sequel payments under the terms of the Minimum Basic Agreement. The Company may contract to give such credit to any writer, but such contract shall provide that in the event another writer is determined to be entitled to such credit, as provided above, that writer shall be given a "Developed by" credit or other similar credit.

                              14. "Developed by"
                              A "Developed by" or "Developed for Television by" credit shall be given only to a person who has contributed to the writing of the program, series or episode involved. As a general rule, a "Developed by" credit would be granted to that writer who has contributed significantly to the series' distinctiveness and viability, but not enough to warrant a "Created by" credit. It is up to the arbiters to determine whether or not it is appropriate to award "Developed by" to the writer proposed for such credit by the Company.


                              ***



                              So it is my contention that in circumstances where you have written a bible but other writers write the pilot - they will get the created by credit and you would be in line to get a developed by credit.


                              That is also what I meant by you being protected in that they do not hold separated rights free and clear because you have an arbitration claim you can make based on your creative contributions.


                              It is my understanding that "created by" credit is not negotiable because it falls under the purview of the WGA and is determined based upon written work done. This is to protect writers from being impinged upon by unscrupulous producers.



                              In terms of attaching yourself to the project as an Executive Producer, again for simplicity's sake, it is a clear position for you to stake out with regards to future negotiation. For you to say - "Here is a pilot I developed, based on a bible that I wrote, and I am attached as an Executive Producer" is a simple and familiar way to position yourself. If you are lucky enough to sell the pilot, you may not get that credit, but it gives the people representing you and the project a place to start that anybody else developing a pilot is going to ask for.

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