Click here for Done Deal Pro home page

Done Deal Pro Home Page

Loading

Go Back   Done Deal Pro Forums > Movies & Television > Films
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2016, 02:02 AM   #91
Bananos
Regular
 
Bananos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bodø, Norway
Posts: 216
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Just stop it. You aren't even answering the quotes you are supposedly adressing, just talking about your own agendas incessantly. This goes for all the three previous posters.

I think the main point of criticism is that the movie does not respect the original. It has a different tone and is not based at all on the other two movies. Personally I never liked Ghostbusters in the first place, so I welcomed the new version. But I would also be angry if they made the new star wars movie into another Melissa McCarthy vehicle. Understand that before you start discussing the sexism and racism angles, because it's not really about that.
Bananos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 02:21 AM   #92
FoxHound
Member
 
FoxHound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,310
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananos View Post
But I would also be angry if they made the new star wars movie into another Melissa McCarthy vehicle.
So true.
__________________
I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.
FoxHound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 03:25 AM   #93
Madbandit
Member
 
Madbandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,341
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpandComing View Post
There may be a lot of diverse characters, but Hollywood isn't going to make movies about every character. Just the most well-known ones, most of whom happen to be white. So it's rather to pointless to complain about changing the ethnicity to a person of color, when the alternative would be fewer (or no) comic book movies featuring people of color. I mean, Todd McFarlane announced a new bigscreen Spawn movie last year, but look how long that idea took to get off the ground -- 20 years! If there's that much reluctance to bring back a black superhero as well known as Spawn, why do you think Hollywood would be invested in lower-profile characters?



I used Gamergate as an example of the toxicity that often characterizes geek culture, per Feig's comments. And rape, assault, and murder threats certainly qualify -- you can trivialize it as a "consumer backlash movement" all you want; you wouldn't be so happy if someone said those kinds of things online to your mother, sister, or daughter. Besides, the lack of arrests is not a very strong argument. The law is in an infantile stage when it comes to punishing people who make online promises of harm. If they said those things in real life they would be arrested -- they're called "terroristic threats", or "menacing."



Again, the first movie had four men in it. You don't see that as a "man-promoting" image, so I don't understand why you see a movie with four women in its as a "cinematic essay on feminism." The only thing that says is that you think the mere idea of women taking over the lead roles is problematic, which frankly, is sexist. No other way around it.
Sigh...

1) Luke Cage is getting a TV series, due to his exposure on Jessica Jones. Shang-Chi will be featured on the Iron Fist TV series, and will later have a series of his own. Cyborg had a cameo in Batman vs Superman (I enjoyed the extended cut). People who have read comic books BEFORE the superhero movie/TV show craze know there are diverse characters. If the comic book industry fought against the lie Werham made about them polluting the minds of children, comic books would be more common place & diverse. I also met Mr. McFarlane. Nice guy. I've been a fan of his work for a long time.

2) Some websites that review video games have changed their policies. Also, my female relatives don't spend their lives on the Internet.

3) Please don't assume that I'm sexist because I don't agree with an feminist idea. That makes you paranoid and prejudiced.
__________________
"A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.” -Frank Miller

"A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

Last edited by Madbandit : 07-21-2016 at 03:43 AM.
Madbandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 03:58 AM   #94
Madbandit
Member
 
Madbandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,341
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by carcar View Post
I would say hacking and publishing people's personal information on the net without their permission, encouraging a mob of harassers, creating bogus accounts and saying despicable things in their name, threatening violence and death, creates an outlaw authority of its own. And these threats are being held over people's head all the time.

allison rapp, for one. I'm not in that world at all, but I know, through circles, women who are dealing with this kind of ongoing harassment on a constant basis.



I think people ignore it as long as they can. It's bullying, and people reach a point where they HAVE to say something. In the case of a public entity, they HAVE to be out in front, as themselves, to do their job. The level of criticism was unreasonable on this project from the beginning.

What exactly constitutes a concrete death threat to you anyway? Not enough your address is put out on the internets and dozens of anonymous trolls threaten to kill and rape you and your family, your kids? Any knock on the door, any time you go to your car, you're thinking of it.

For someone who purports to be a writer, you're sure having a hard time putting yourself in someone else's shoes.
1) As I said before, I don't approve of those acts, but, to my knowledge, said acts weren't done under the banner of Gamergate.

2) I don't spend my life being on the Internet, which is a collective of information and opiniions. When I go on, I take precautions as much as I can. It's common sense to. No one leaves their front door and windows open when they go to sleep.

3) I don't have to prove my worth as a writer to you.
__________________
"A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.” -Frank Miller

"A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore
Madbandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 04:08 AM   #95
Madbandit
Member
 
Madbandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,341
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananos View Post
Just stop it. You aren't even answering the quotes you are supposedly adressing, just talking about your own agendas incessantly. This goes for all the three previous posters.

I think the main point of criticism is that the movie does not respect the original. It has a different tone and is not based at all on the other two movies. Personally I never liked Ghostbusters in the first place, so I welcomed the new version. But I would also be angry if they made the new star wars movie into another Melissa McCarthy vehicle. Understand that before you start discussing the sexism and racism angles, because it's not really about that.
Exactly. I don't understand why people not liking the reboot makes them automatically sexist. Some haters are, but I and a lot of other reasonable people have legitimate criticism against the reboot, and we don't want to lump in with the misogynistic dopes. News reporters (and possibly the studio) did that, especially when a YouTube movie reviewer made a mature, non-sexist video of why he wasn't going to see/review the film. https://youtu.be/hz8X2A7wHyQ.


. You, Bananos, liked the film. I don't care to see it. That's fine.
__________________
"A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.” -Frank Miller

"A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

Last edited by Madbandit : 07-21-2016 at 04:22 AM.
Madbandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 06:20 AM   #96
UpandComing
Member
 
UpandComing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,429
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananos View Post
I think the main point of criticism is that the movie does not respect the original. It has a different tone and is not based at all on the other two movies. Personally I never liked Ghostbusters in the first place, so I welcomed the new version. But I would also be angry if they made the new star wars movie into another Melissa McCarthy vehicle. Understand that before you start discussing the sexism and racism angles, because it's not really about that.
This is once again a case of the critics on here trying to revise history.

This back-and-forth began due to FoxHound referring to the movie as a "feminist gimmick". His reasons for calling it this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxHound View Post
But when I learned a A-list alpha male megastar (Chris Hemsworth) was playing a "secretary" the film took on the life of a feminist gimmick. It was now intentionally crapping on the man-power angle of the original.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxHound View Post
They've reversed the script. Now 4 women overcome a litany of obstacles, save the world, and become super heroes while the lone male character idles in a chair answering phones.
The back-and-forth continued due to various commenters stating the reasons for their criticism: the casting was terrible (entlassen). The trailer looked awful (StoryWriter). The current reviews by people who have seen it say it was harsh on men (Madbandit).

But guess what these posters all have in common? None of them have actually seen the movie. Casting tells you nothing about plot and little about tone. A trailer only represents 2 minutes and 30 seconds of a film. As screenwriters, that should be a distinction that is obvious and important. Even basing your critiques on reviews made by others weakens your argument, because they are merely secondhand reviews. A book critic for the New York Times wouldn't write a review of a new book based on what he "heard some other people say" about it. He would read it himself!

Thus, unlike what you say, the "main point of criticism" on here was not that the movie didn't "respect the original". It was that people expected the movie to be terrible based on the casting, or trailers, or feedback they heard from others' reviews of the film (not critics, mind you, who have given it a 73% RT score, but some random forum commenters). And that's where I have a problem.

You can spout criticism all you want, but if you haven't actually seen the piece of art you are vehemently criticizing, you lack credibility. It's kind of like when Spike Lee criticized "Django Unchained" for being a cartoonish look at slavery based on its trailers, and said he wasn't going to see the movie. While I saw the movie and ultimately agreed with some aspects of what he said, his argument was undercut by the fact that he didn't actually see the movie.

It's hard to take the similar type of uninformed arguments about "Ghostbusters" seriously -- especially when many of the people who are making them didn't only now come out against the movie, but criticized it as soon as it was announced to be having an all-female cast (before the script was even written). Those people showed their hands early, revealing the critique was not about "tone" or "respecting the original", but rather about the gender-switch. And if you're basing the quality of a movie on the mere fact of a gender switch, then guess what? You might be a sexist.
__________________
“I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.”- Peter De Vries
UpandComing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 06:40 AM   #97
UpandComing
Member
 
UpandComing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,429
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madbandit View Post
Luke Cage is getting a TV series, due to his exposure on Jessica Jones. Shang-Chi will be featured on the Iron Fist TV series, and will later have a series of his own. Cyborg had a cameo in Batman vs Superman (I enjoyed the extended cut). People who have read comic books BEFORE the superhero movie/TV show craze know there are diverse characters. If the comic book industry fought against the lie Werham made about them polluting the minds of children, comic books would be more common place & diverse. I also met Mr. McFarlane. Nice guy. I've been a fan of his work for a long time.
What kind of weak argument is this? You chose three examples, two of them from TV (not from movies, which involve a much bigger investment), one of those two being merely an unfounded rumor (Shang-Chi has not been officially confirmed to be getting his own spinoff, much less appearing in "Iron Fist" -- see here: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/...netflix-show/), and the lone movie example being a mere cameo rather than a starring role. My argument still stands; Hollywood is not going to spend money building movies around little-known comic book characters of color, which is why it has changed the ethnicity of some existing well-known characters instead (and which is fine if whiteness is not a defining characteristic of said characters).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madbandit View Post
Some websites that review video games have changed their policies. Also, my female relatives don't spend their lives on the Internet.
Well, that's great. But it doesn't change the fact that Feig was basing his comments on a a still very-real and prevalent scenario. And your female relatives not spending their lives on the Internet doesn't make that behavior any less troubling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madbandit View Post
Please don't assume that I'm sexist because I don't agree with an feminist idea. That makes you paranoid and prejudiced.
I didn't call you a sexist. I said your rationale is sexist because it is merely based on the presence of women in roles once held by men rather than an actual viewing of the movie.
__________________
“I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.”- Peter De Vries
UpandComing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2016, 06:45 AM   #98
UpandComing
Member
 
UpandComing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,429
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madbandit View Post
As I said before, I don't approve of those acts, but, to my knowledge, said acts weren't done under the banner of Gamergate.
What do you mean they weren't done "under the banner" of Gamergate? The abusive actions began with the attackers using #Gamergate on Twitter, hence the name of the controversy. The campaign was conducted primarily through Twitter.
__________________
“I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.”- Peter De Vries
UpandComing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 09:01 AM   #99
moviefan
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

GB 16 has bombed overseas. Made just over 60 million.

Quote:
$62,800,000


No wide appeal for female Ghostbusters.
moviefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 10:21 AM   #100
UpandComing
Member
 
UpandComing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,429
Default Re: Ghostbusters Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by moviefan View Post
GB 16 has bombed overseas. Made just over 60 million.



No wide appeal for female Ghostbusters.
That is a poorly supported statement.

1) Ghostbusters is a sequel to a comedy made long ago. So is Zoolander 2, whose original film was much more recent (2001), which should've generated strong interest. Zoolander 2 only made $27.1 million in foreign sales (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=zoolander2.htm). Was that because it was led by a man?

2) Ghostbusters is an action comedy starring a box office comic star (Melissa McCarthy). So is Central Intelligence (Kevin Hart). Central Intelligence only made $80.1 million in foreign sales (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...elligence.htm). Was that because it was led by men?

3) Ghostbusters did not get a release in China. Star Trek Beyond (another sequel in a beloved franchise) also hasn't opened in China yet, and its foreign box office is $66.5 million -- about the same as Ghostbusters (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...rtrek2016.htm). Was that because it was led by men?

The point is, there are several possible factors that may explain why the movie did not perform as well as projected internationally (the fact that it didn't open in China, which drives significant box office; the fact that comedies usually don't perform as well overseas as other genres; and the fact that sequels in general have underperformed this summer). It's kind of lame that you would automatically assume that it's performance is due to the fact that it's led by women. It's kind of lame in general when Hollywood blames a movie's performance on gender.
__________________
“I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.”- Peter De Vries

Last edited by UpandComing : 08-09-2016 at 01:25 PM.
UpandComing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Done Deal Pro

eXTReMe Tracker