Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

    Hello, thanks in advance for any and all assistance. The question I have is:

    Do I have to have my characters sit around and describe their plan to be carried out to the audience?

    For instance, like in:

    Jay Simpson's Armored:

    The characters sit around the bar and one of them describes to Ty, exactly how the plan of robbing the armored truck is to be carried out.

    I've also seen this in a lot of other movies, where they pretty much tell exactly what they are going to do before they do it and rely on some sort of plot twist. Nothing wrong with this, but I was wondering if I had to detail the plan for the audience, or could I just delve write into it after it's been established what the characters goal are (i.e. rob an armored truck)?

    I hope I explained that good enough.

  • #2
    Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

    I think it all depends on what story you are telling.

    If you look at "Armored", they talk about their plan in the bar with the protag. This sets up a period of time for the main character to reflect on his ****ty lifestyle, etc. In my opinion it's effective in a couple ways. Telling the audience what is to be/could be expected and gives the protag a period of time to look at his life/lifestyle. I also think this is what jump starts the story, aka the Inciting Incident.

    But if you look at a movie like "Point Break", the bank robbers don't reveal to the audience they are going to include Reeve's in their next heist. It just happens suddently.
    We Are Legion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

      Originally posted by Cayden Black View Post
      Hello, thanks in advance for any and all assistance. The question I have is:

      Do I have to have my characters sit around and describe their plan to be carried out to the audience?

      For instance, like in:

      Jay Simpson's Armored:

      The characters sit around the bar and one of them describes to Ty, exactly how the plan of robbing the armored truck is to be carried out.

      I've also seen this in a lot of other movies, where they pretty much tell exactly what they are going to do before they do it and rely on some sort of plot twist. Nothing wrong with this, but I was wondering if I had to detail the plan for the audience, or could I just delve write into it after it's been established what the characters goal are (i.e. rob an armored truck)?

      I hope I explained that good enough.
      The quick answer is NO, you don't have to. It depends on how you are telling the story.

      In fact, the characters should not sit and and discuss the plan for the heist unless there is a specific reason to do so, and you should look at the films that do this to understand what that reason is.

      Most often, it's about establishing the geography and timeline so that the audience knows how close they are to accomplishing their plan or allowing the audience to understand what was supposed to happen when the plan went wrong.

      Of course, there are times where you can create more tension by having the audience play catch-up. It just depends on what works best for the narrative.

      The weakest thing you could do, though, is have the characters describe exactly what's going to happen in the heist, and then have exactly that happen.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

        Watch RIFIFI.















        Now!
        "Tone is now engaged in a furious Google search for Leighton Meester's keester." -- A friend of mine

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

          Holy crap!
          "Tone is now engaged in a furious Google search for Leighton Meester's keester." -- A friend of mine

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

            First off, thank you both for responding.

            If you look at "Armored", they talk about their plan in the bar with the protag. This sets up a period of time for the main character to reflect on his ****ty lifestyle, etc. In my opinion it's effective in a couple ways. Telling the audience what is to be/could be expected and gives the protag a period of time to look at his life/lifestyle. I also think this is what jump starts the story, aka the Inciting Incident.

            So, in other words, if it's not my Inciting Incident, then I could leave it out. My Inciting Incident deals with a guy getting "kicked out of college", then needing money to resolve another situation stemming from him being kicked out. He tells the gang what he plans to do, but I don't necessarily want him to revela how he plans to do it....

            ...which leads me to...

            Of course, there are times where you can create more tension by having the audience play catch-up. It just depends on what works best for the narrative.

            The weakest thing you could do, though, is have the characters describe exactly what's going to happen in the heist, and then have exactly that happen.

            Thinking that, that would be perfectly fine to leave out that portion and just have them go straight into the execution of said plan.



            Another example would be Ocean's 11...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

              Overall, if it does nothing for your story, you don't need it.

              Armored took that route because it needed it in my opinion. The protag was part of their team. He rode in the trucks with everyone who was "IN" on the heist. In order for them to successfully pull of the heist without any hiccups, they needed to convince the protag to take part in the heist.

              Secondly, Who is this gang you refer to in your story? Friends of his? Why does he have to tell the gang anything.

              LUNCH TIME!

              Answer my questions and we can go from there.
              We Are Legion.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                Originally posted by Cayden Black View Post
                Another example would be Ocean's 11...
                Yeah, Ocean's 11 is a good example concerning how much they tell you. What they lay out, in their discussion, is all the obstacles in their way. Essentially "to get in, we have to get past this, this, this and this" and then through the second act they show you how they plan to accomplish each, and all the while, leave you in the dark about how they intend to get out. A very well-paced, nicely structured heist film.

                There's also what David Mamet also does, and Spartan is actually a better example than Heist, where the audience is constantly primed to expect one circumstance and then the action is subverted. Tell the audience that you're about to take a left, and then take a right. It's a very difficult narrative trick to master, though, because if done poorly it will infuriate the audience. It has to raise the stakes and be more interesting than what you told the audience was going to happen.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                  Or The Dark Knight- at the beginning, no explaining really, just a balls to the wall bank heist right off the bat.
                  Write.Sell.Repeat.

                  Theoretically...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                    Originally posted by Raw_and_Vital View Post
                    Overall, if it does nothing for your story, you don't need it.

                    Armored took that route because it needed it in my opinion. The protag was part of their team. He rode in the trucks with everyone who was "IN" on the heist. In order for them to successfully pull of the heist without any hiccups, they needed to convince the protag to take part in the heist.

                    Secondly, Who is this gang you refer to in your story? Friends of his? Why does he have to tell the gang anything.

                    LUNCH TIME!

                    Answer my questions and we can go from there.

                    Exactly my thinking. The "gang", I'm referring to, are his friends. But they've all been convinced to come aboard at this point. So, I was wondering if I needed to have that sort of scene "detailing their plan" of execution, or if I could just start with the plan, since they all already know what's at stake and pretty much know their role(s).

                    Again thanks for the help.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                      KeenGuy, tha son... you both make excellent points. I never considered "the getting out" part of Ocean's 11. And Dark Knight's opening is actually what I'm wondering if I could get away with something similar near the "first turning point", etc. without laying it out for the audience.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                        Cayden

                        Okay, that clears up some things.

                        Well, if I understand correctly, the protagonist is basically the only one who needs this money, hence he constructs a plan/heist.

                        Why are his friends pulled into any of this?

                        IF the gang HAS to be pulled into this plan/heist, perhaps that's something you would want to focus on in more detail.

                        This could be their reason for being pulled into the plan/heist.

                        Maybe the protag had this perfect plan, a heist to get rich. What if one of his friends stumbles upon this Plan (maybe at a party he is having)? Maybe the protagonist's plan was all worked out and written in a couple notebooks. What if one of his close friends stumbles upon this and ponders if it's for real or a joke... He then takes a copy to the rest of the gang and asks for their opinion.

                        During all of this, the plan can be revealed in bits and pieces through dialog between "the gang". Since they are all college students I am guessing, they might want a piece of the $$$ as well. I mean hell, paying off college loans, not a pretty thing.

                        You can also dig into some characters during all this. Maybe a friend in the group, aka the gang is a outspoken kind of guy and he convinces all of them to force/convince the protag to let them be apart of this heist. IF NOT, they will turn him in or something of the sort. So, with no other choice, he agrees.

                        You can also base a twist of the protags decision. Maybe he alters the plan and convinces them the copy they have is the current, up to date plan.

                        Maybe it was his plan all along to intentionally have them stumble upon the plan/notebook and he makes them do all the footwork and take the fall WITHOUT them not even being aware of it until it's too late.

                        Sorry if I am rambling. What do you think?
                        Last edited by Raw_and_Vital; 10-15-2008, 08:03 PM.
                        We Are Legion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                          No please do, ramble. I'm grateful of your advice.

                          You're close.

                          The gang consists of 3 college guys

                          2 of them need the money, the 3rd is along for the ride so to speak, but he's vital to the rest of the plot.

                          The plan is hatched and brought to them by the main guys ex-girlfriend.

                          Off-camera: the other two guys are let in on what the main guy wants to do, there's some resistance, but later the main guy alters the plan just a little and this is the portion where I am wondering if I must place on screen or if I can leave it off.

                          Also taking into consideration some of the things mentioned above, I decided to go take a look at a couple of "crime" related scripts and I was able to find one that is almost identical to what I am trying to accomplish. It's Walter Hill's "The Getaway". They set up what they are doing, but they don't tell what they are going to do, before they actually do it.

                          I appreciate all of your help and advice. I will be sure to credit you during my interview after the sale of the script.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                            Well, I think you are on the right track then.

                            In regards to the Protag altering the plan slightly, just enough to pull a flip flop from under their noses.... NO! keep that for the twist. Have fun with it, come up with a clever way of showing it.

                            Look at Shawshank Redemption. If we were in on Andy's plan it would not have the same effect. I think it *HITS HARD* the way they executed it.

                            Perhaps save your reveal of the altered plan for the end or for a twist.


                            HA HA HA, here I am trying to give advice to fellow writers when I can't even punch my way out of a wet paper bag with my own writing hiccups!.! SHEESH!
                            We Are Legion.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Detailing the "plan" to be carried out! Help please!

                              In Armored, I also thought the sense of him being a part of the plan, and us knowing the plan, heightened the betrayal...The betrayal/twist was used to spark the rest of the story of his survival inside/outside the truck.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X