Seeking Character Arc advice

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  • Seeking Character Arc advice

    I'm trying to learn more about Character Arcs. I did use the google search field for the forum and saw there was some cool stuff about genre and Character Arcs, Character Arcs in certain movies, etc.

    But I wonder if there is a particular book, guru, movie, article, that really helped you learn and write character arcs.


    I also have all kinds of questions, if the mood strikes you:

    How does it fit into your outline process?

    Is it a major factor in figuring out plot points?

    Do you refuse to write until you know it?

    Do you use something other than a character arc or ignore them completely and if so, why?

    I did read a cool thread on here where someone mentioned that Theme is the opposite of a Character Flaw. Is there any little rule or guideline about arcs that helped you understand how arcs work in relation to the other elements in a screenplay?


    Thanks for any and all feedback

  • #2
    Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

    I don't know that I think about character arcs in specific terms. It's more like, the whole story hinges on a character who wants/needs something (complex characters usually want one thing, and subconsciously need another thing that is maybe in opposition to the first thing). That character's objective is going to drive the entire story. Nothing happens until your protagonist decides to do something.

    (OK yes there are good films with very passive protagonists, but I'm speaking in generalities here.)

    The character's arc, then, is inextricable from the story. The narrative is made up of her choices, the consequences of those choices, and the choices she makes in response to those consequences. So who she is and how she changes are a part of the story.

    As for advice, personally I tend to develop the plot out of order. I usually decide where I want it to begin and end, sprinkle in any middle bits I think are good, and then just run back and forth until the whole thing's built out. So if you want to plot a character arc, probably the easiest way is to think about who your character is at the beginning vs how they're different at the end, and then decide what happens to get them there.

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    • #3
      Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

      Generally speaking, it is the character's flaw - the mistake the character continues to make - that keeps the character from achieving the story goal throughout most of the story. You have to plan for this. Think about who your character is, what your character's flaw is, what your character's goal is, how the character needs to change to be a better person. When the character finally has improved him or herself enough to overcome the flaw, then the character is finally able to achieve the goal. So when you design your story, you design that into it -- a character who needs to change, and who takes the length of the movie to do the necessary learning and growing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

        Arcs equal change. Having your characters arc guarantees that something has happened. They started as X and ended Y. The kind of attention this gets in the story depends on genre. Genres like Action and Thriller concentrate on different aspects of a story, and pay less attention to this. Some dramas make it the entire focus of the film, we call this a 'character study' film.

        So, first if I was you I'd read five scripts in the same genre yours was set in, and I'd pay close attention to character arc. At what pace does it happen? What are the key events? You are aloud to look at the papers of some really smart writers. I know in high school and college it was frowned upon to look at the work of the nerd next to you, but here it is perfectly acceptable, and really if you are not doing it then you are already behind in the game.

        If you are asking us here how do you pull it off? How do you write a powerful character arc into the plot of your film? Nobody can tell you that, it's just something you'll need to figure out by trial and error and educating yourself.

        Just remember whatever you are talking about whether it is structure or character arc or anything else. Everything is story specific. Movie A pulled off a great character arc in 6 major movements, Movie B did it in 10. Another movie was able to do it with 4. Same with structure. Things happen when the moment is 'ripe' to steal from McKee. What he is saying is that in the narrative prior to this moment your prose has arisen a sense of anticipation in the reader.

        You know how you see those moments in your head where you see your hero in this amazing scene that fits the genre and his journey? Now you have to get him there a way structurally that makes sense, and have the reader anticipating the moment, really looking forward to it. When I read scripts I admire, I have to say I find myself anticipating things to come.

        Good movies with good character arcs are complete concepts. That's what allows for that last third of the arc, the strongest, toughest moments to happen (having a complete idea). This is either missing or nowhere near strong enough in the narrative in most scripts written by writers trying to break through. Make sure you have a complete idea, but aren't you writing something about a forest creature in some mythical land? I'm not saying your character can't or shouldn't arc, but your audience will be expecting fear, to be scared, dire situations that the hero narrowly escapes. Make sure that you don't give the arc anymore attention than it deserves. It's like too much spaghetti sauce, after a while everything you add starts taking away from the taste of the dish.

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        • #5
          Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

          My friend, who is a spectacular writer, doesn't give a hoot about arcs or theme or anything. He doesn't follow any rules, and he seems to be able to write beautiful, moving stories that are as compelling as hell.

          And as you've probably noticed, some protags don't even have an arc... they stay exactly the same as they started. Just another thing to consider I guess.

          This was a great article that I just read; thought it might possibly be apropos:

          http://nofilmschool.com/2017/05/why-...rules-are-myth

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          • #6
            Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

            These are helpful. Thank you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

              Originally posted by Ryan Rodriguez View Post
              I'm trying to learn more about Character Arcs. I did use the google search field for the forum and saw there was some cool stuff about genre and Character Arcs, Character Arcs in certain movies, etc.

              But I wonder if there is a particular book, guru, movie, article, that really helped you learn and write character arcs.


              I also have all kinds of questions, if the mood strikes you:

              How does it fit into your outline process?

              Is it a major factor in figuring out plot points?

              Do you refuse to write until you know it?

              Do you use something other than a character arc or ignore them completely and if so, why?

              I did read a cool thread on here where someone mentioned that Theme is the opposite of a Character Flaw. Is there any little rule or guideline about arcs that helped you understand how arcs work in relation to the other elements in a screenplay?


              Thanks for any and all feedback
              Personally, I don't tend to think in terms of "character arc" per se. Instead, I think in terms of internal vs. external problem or struggle. Stories are about problems that need solving. Those problems or struggles usually have a dual aspect.

              An internal/thematic aspect -- a struggle that is going on inside the protagonist, for instance, loyalty to family vs, doing the right thing. At the same time there's an external struggle going on -- and that external struggle mirrors that internal one -- it will also, if you're telling the story correctly, be about family vs. doing the right thing. And those two tracks, the internal thematic track and the external action track play out along parallel lines until they both, hopefully arrive at their resolution in the same place and at the same time.

              Now that's going to involve both internal conflict -- the character having to make choices about things that matter to him, that have moral weight, that have consequences that will have an impact on the protagonist's values, and those choices inform the external conflict -- the action of the story.

              That's what we're talking about when we say that something has been "dramatized." It means that we take all of that internal "to be or not to be" stuff and render it in the form of decisions and actions (or sometimes the opportunity to act and the failure to act, which is also a decision).

              Now, based on the nature of that internal struggle or conflict, a character may change, given whatever the story is, or he may not. That's because the thematic content may involve the need for a character to change and he may change, or he may fail to change, in which case you have a tragic ending.

              Or it may involve the need to hold firm to a set of values, in which case the external force is to try to get him to change and the refusal to change is the thrust of the dramatic tension. Any number of stories in which the protagonist embodies the forces of justice or order in conflict with the forces of chaos are those kinds of stories, and you'll often find, in those kinds of stories that there will be a secondary character who's partially surrendered to the forces of chaos who is rescued and brought back to the side of righteousness. But the hero, the protagonist, does not change, thus, there is no "character arc" as it is normally described in those stories.

              And there's nothing wrong with that.

              That's why I don't like to talk about "character arc" per se. I prefer to talk about that internal and external tension, the central problem of the story, what the protagonist's need/problem embodies in terms of the story's theme.

              Now, before you get all crazy about this, very often, as you start to write, you're not going to be sure about all of this. Bringing these things into focus and coming to understand what your story is about, what your hero's internal and external tension is and all the rest is what the process of writing and rewriting is all about.

              I used to say that it's just paper. Now, it's not even paper, and the process of writing is process of discovering the story. For the audience watching it or reading it should all seem to be seamless and flawless and inevitable.

              Just like when you look at a perfectly polished piece of furniture with no seams or edges and it all looks so neat and smooth. You don't see any of the hacking or the chopping or the saw marks or the grinding or the sanding or the six different kinds of grit and the wood filler and all the rest that went into making it look just perfect.

              That's what we're doing. The stories don't emerge full-grown from our heads like Athena from Zeus' head. We got to hack it together from bits and pieces and polish it up like they make furniture.

              And if we're lucky it doesn't fall apart the first time somebody sits on it.

              NMS

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                I tend to approach this subject as the contrast between the character at the beginning of the story, vs. the same character at the end of the story. Any differences in self esteem, beliefs, goals, hopes, dreams, relationship dynamics, etc. represents the arc they have gone through.

                In my particular story, my private investigator starts off as cynical, cocksure, somewhat world-weary. Sleeps around with various women but keeps emotionally distant. During the course of the story, the antagonist worms her way beneath his skin and he starts to fall for her. A lot of old wounds end up being re-opened and he is forced to revisit a past he'd tried to move on from. At the end of the story he is left emotionally vulnerable and broken. A confident man broken down by the charms of a woman.

                A supporting character in my story also goes through an arc of her own. In the beginning she is the protagonist's on-again, off-again girlfriend. She clings to him for emotional support and stability, and suffers from low self esteem. During the events of the story, she realizes that she deserves better than how she has been treated, and breaks up with him. At the end of the story, she and the detective make amends, but she still chooses to remain separated. She's become a stronger woman, and no longer feels she needs to be in a relationship to feel emotionally fulfilled.

                Just two examples of arcs. I try to imbue all the major characters in my story with arcs that overlap and intersect. Makes them feel more alive if they grow and change as a result of the story's events.

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                • #9
                  Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                  been in mull-over mode. thanks again for the excellent responses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                    I'll start by saying what I am about to tell you is terrible advice. I'm a vomit drafter, which has a huge amount of cons and only a few pros. One of the pros is "finding the story" as you go along. It may be a hot mess but over the course of your time with these characters they reveal more and more to you. If their arc isn't apparent to you at first it might hit you like a bolt of lightning down the road. If you get a first draft done at least there's a meaty framework to go off to figure out what the true point of it all is.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                      Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
                      If you get a first draft done at least there's a meaty framework to go off to figure out what the true point of it all is.
                      I hear you. I plan a lot but after the first draft it almost always shows itself to be surprisingly different from my initial plan.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                        There is no right or wrong way to come up with a story. It's how a story comes to you. The first element bouncing around in your head could be a character, could be a situation, could be a setting, could be anything. You take what you have and write a draft. That draft is missing lots of stuff, but you take what works and write another draft, you find another building block in draft two, you take those two and write another draft. Eventually you will have a plan of logic for the hero to take that makes sense to you and makes sense for the genre. Most amateurs stop right there (if they get that far at all). What you're supposed to do is at that point write the movie forclogic from antag POV. What happens is you put major cracks in that logic you just spent 3 months coming up with? You've decided that the antag knowing what he/she knows wouldn't give the hero that choice they made in Act 2, they'd be an idiot. You say, 'Well, I would do this if I was the Antag'. It's going to be something good. The hairs on your neck will stand when you think of it, but it does change the entire structure of the ladtv60% of the film, and you'll need a new set of logic for the hero.

                        Most amateurs say, 'Screw that, I wanna see if anyone responds to the story as is, I've spent 4 months on it.'

                        You're never done Ryan. Amateurs throw the towel in long before material is every ready. The frustration meter is off the roof at times.

                        The best way to learn for you Ryan, I think, is to get to that 7th draft. Get through those drafts where you have 50 and 60 page dumps. Cracking Hero logic with the antag POV rewrite. But you make it through and you hopefully have material on such a deepened level that readers can't predict only anticipate what happens next.

                        Everybody who really wants it, try to put yourself atbthst 7th draft ASAP.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                          Originally posted by Ryan Rodriguez View Post
                          But I wonder if there is a particular book, guru, movie, article, that really helped you learn and write character arcs.
                          Hero's journey is a classic for this: take characters into an Opposite World and turn them to belong there.

                          Originally posted by Ryan Rodriguez View Post
                          How does it fit into your outline process?
                          The outline is based on pushing characters on the journey and provoking the change.

                          Originally posted by Ryan Rodriguez View Post
                          Is it a major factor in figuring out plot points?
                          Yes. You can define plot points as milestones along the change, so it's integral.

                          Originally posted by Ryan Rodriguez View Post
                          Do you refuse to write until you know it?
                          No, writing pages helps figure things out and solve problems.

                          Originally posted by Ryan Rodriguez View Post
                          Do you use something other than a character arc or ignore them completely and if so, why?
                          It's very hard to escape arc. For example, theme is arc.

                          "Character arc" is too broad:
                          Do you mean the character changes worldview? In which case you're manipulating an underlying belief.
                          Are you changing form and appearance? In which case you're manipulating externalization.
                          And so on...

                          It's easier to figure it out and work with it than avoid it.
                          Story Structure 1
                          Story Structure 2
                          Story Structure 3

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                          • #14
                            Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                            Cyfress - thanks for the advice


                            Timmy - thanks for the answers. great links. the Harmon one was broken but when I took the "1" off it worked.

                            That 8 point circle he uses is very similar to one I came across called the Smiley/Thompson nine-point plan.

                            1. Normality
                            2. Disturbance
                            3. Protagonist
                            4. Plan (goal)
                            5. Surprise
                            6 Obstacle
                            7. Complication, substories, surprises, obstacles
                            8 Climax
                            9 Resolution

                            Finding a ton of similarities in all the various approaches but are either explained differently, thought about differently, or have interchangeable parts to make room for different genres or needs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Seeking Character Arc advice

                              Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
                              I'll start by saying what I am about to tell you is terrible advice. I'm a vomit drafter, which has a huge amount of cons and only a few pros. One of the pros is "finding the story" as you go along. It may be a hot mess but over the course of your time with these characters they reveal more and more to you. If their arc isn't apparent to you at first it might hit you like a bolt of lightning down the road. If you get a first draft done at least there's a meaty framework to go off to figure out what the true point of it all is.
                              Me too. It takes me about fifty pages before the characters really start to click. Then I can go back and rewrite those fifty pages with better characters. (Obviously pros, writing on assignment, don't have this luxury. And they probably don't need it. That's why they're pros.) But for spec scripts? I think the "vomit draft" can work as an outline starting point.

                              You're right, it's probably terrible advice, but it is lot more fun than (figure out a number) of steps and follow them religiously and get bored out of your skull, before you even start writing your mechanical story.

                              Have I mentioned that I never tried to sell a screenplay? But I have won and placed in a few contests and have had a lot of fun writing.
                              "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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