Click here for Done Deal Pro home page

Done Deal Pro Home Page

Loading

Go Back   Done Deal Pro Forums > About the Craft > Screenwriting
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-16-2019, 03:48 PM   #81
Centos
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,933
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaterso View Post
I am not convinced that loglines that size and lacking specific details are going to work for unknowns, but that's okay, you don't have to convince me. Feel free to prove me wrong, though.
Alright, for what it's worth... here's a logline I worked up for an idea I've had for a while. I wrote the first seven pages as a short, years ago, but saw potential for a possible full script or novella/novel.

Warp Holes
A twelve year-old discovers reality-shifting warp holes and finds he's the only one who can save the father he thought was dead.
__________________
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

Last edited by Centos : 05-16-2019 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Changed the title ... again ... and back again.
Centos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2019, 02:45 AM   #82
dpaterso
Member
 
dpaterso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Caledonia
Posts: 5,644
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

By prove me wrong I meant send it out there and see if it tickles interest. Write the next 103 pages and make it happen!
__________________
Nobody knows anything, and I'm nobody.



Sign up and sign in to view Loglines + Script Pages forums!
dpaterso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2019, 01:23 PM   #83
Centos
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,933
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaterso View Post
By prove me wrong I meant send it out there and see if it tickles interest. Write the next 103 pages and make it happen!
Oh... you mean... work? Yeah... umm... I'll get back to you on that.
__________________
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.
Centos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2019, 07:49 PM   #84
jonpiper
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,594
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Piper: Order. Order. Order on the board.

DD: You’re not the moderator. You lack the authority to call the board to order.

Piper: Then I will get on with it and speak the truth.

In summary, after a very long discussion, with ample reference to pros and “experts”, we can only agree that the purpose of a logline for a finished screenplay is to convince gatekeepers and decision makers to read your screenplay. But we can’t agree on the number of words in or the content of a logline.

We agree there is no set limit to word count, but too many words will turn off many potential logline readers. Two sentences and fifty words seems to be the limit.

We can’t agree on what information a logline should contain. The content depends upon what limited information the logline audience wants to know about your screenplay. Do they want to know the premise, the protagonist, the protag’s goal, the antagonist, the stakes? All? Some? One? None?

Who among us has the final answers?
jonpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2019, 12:13 AM   #85
dpaterso
Member
 
dpaterso's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Caledonia
Posts: 5,644
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonpiper View Post
But we can’t agree on the number of words in or the content of a logline.
...
Two sentences and fifty words seems to be the limit.
Oh no you don't! I see what you did there!

1 sentence, 25-ish words!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonpiper View Post
Who among us has the final answers?
Indeed. All we can hope for is the best advice, instead.
__________________
Nobody knows anything, and I'm nobody.



Sign up and sign in to view Loglines + Script Pages forums!
dpaterso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2019, 11:45 AM   #86
jonpiper
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,594
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaterso View Post
Oh no you don't! I see what you did there!

1 sentence, 25-ish words!


Indeed. All we can hope for is the best advice, instead.
Okay. Sorry, I misspoke the truth, dpat. A good 50 words max. in 1 or 2 sentences is better than a forced one sentence 25 word logline.
jonpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2019, 03:42 AM   #87
nmstevens
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 848
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centos View Post
Alright, for what it's worth... here's a logline I worked up for an idea I've had for a while. I wrote the first seven pages as a short, years ago, but saw potential for a possible full script or novella/novel.

Warp Holes
A twelve year-old discovers reality-shifting warp holes and finds he's the only one who can save the father he thought was dead.
My two cents -- there's no connective tissue between the first part of the idea -- discovering the warp holes, and the second part of the idea -- saving his father who he thought was dead.

I mean, I'm guessing that the warp holes had something to do with why he must have thought that he was dead -- maybe dad fell through one of the warp holes into whatever was on the other side? Or maybe his father created or discovered of found the warp holes originally and everyone thought he was lost and the kid both discovers the warp holes and accidentally "releases" them but in the process also discovers that his dad is alive but now he needs to find his Dad to stop whatever the warp holes are causing or whatever is coming through the warp holes -- Or something?

But it ain't my job to figure that out, because honestly, I've got other things to do -- like moving on to some other, better formulated log line.

You see? This is all kind of formulaic stuff. All been-there-done-that stuff.

Here's the deal with log lines. A term from advertising.

USP.

Unique Selling Point.

What is it about your idea, the idea embodied in your log line that makes it special and unique and uniquely marketable that will make rise up above all of those hundreds and thousands of other log lines?

Because that is what your log line is. It is a marketing tool. It is designed to market your screenplay, to make people want to read it.

So, to start off with, the log line first has to be readable in itself. It has to make a reader want to read it. Twenty five words. Fifty words. One sentence, two sentences. Who cares? So long as it grabs the reader's attention and makes you want to read it and read whatever it's describing.

NMS
nmstevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2019, 06:15 AM   #88
Centos
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,933
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmstevens View Post
My two cents -- there's no connective tissue between the first part of the idea -- discovering the warp holes, and the second part of the idea -- saving his father who he thought was dead.
Thanks for the criticism and advice. You're right (in the non-quoted part of your post) I was figuring the reader would fill in the "connective tissue." And, yes, similar stuff has already been done, and there really isn't any unique selling point, because the story (I'm afraid) is not that unique. I just liked the character a lot and thought he could carry the story... but how do you say that in a logline? (And who would believe you?)

Again, thanks for taking the time to read and comment on this psuedo-logline-ish sort of thing.
__________________
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.
Centos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2019, 07:28 PM   #89
JoeNYC
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,297
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

In the Logline forum, jonpiper gave a suggested logline to the OP suggesting for the focus to be just on the antagonist and not to include the protagonist, or his goal elements in the logline.

When I pointed out to jonpiper that his suggested logline was misleading because it gave the impression that the antagonist was the protagonist/anti-hero of the OPs’ story, he replied:

“in my opinion, nobody knows what ingredients a logline for a given screenplay must have to attract the most readers and decision to that screenplay.”

jonpiper says, “nobody knows.”

I wanted to address this, but I didn't want to derail the OP's thread, so I'm gonna discuss it here.

It’s been said time and time again that the basic ingredients (elements) that are required in a logline to attract readers are: protagonist, protagonist’s goal and antagonist force.

If someone wants to include these elements in a logline, is a different story.

All one has to do is look at written loglines from writers and they’ll see it includes these three basic elements.

For example, in a past thread called “Open Query letters to Michael B,” a hundred members posted a hundred loglines for Michael, an industry manager, to give his opinion if any were commercially worthy enough for the industry.

jonpiper, if you’d look at those hundred loglines, you’ll be hard pressed to find one that will not have included these three basic elements, so, this to me, means that writers DO KNOW what “ingredients” a logline must have to attract readers.

I don’t know of a screenplay that doesn’t have a hero, or anti-hero with a goal. Also, it’s very rare to find a screenplay that doesn’t have some type of antagonist force. The closest I can think of would be GRACE IS GONE.

Logline:

When a Midwestern father learns his army wife was killed in the Iraq war, he must come to terms with this devastating news before he could tell his two young daughters about their mother’s fate, so he delays by taking them on a road trip to their favorite amusement park in Florida.

GRACE IS GONE doesn’t have a clear antagonist, but you could say the antagonist is himself where he must cope and accept that his wife is gone.

In this thread and others there have been some members who have given examples of loglines with just the antagonist and excluded the protagonist and his goal, saying this was an effective way to get industry reads.

Do I believe this is possible? Sure, anything is possible, but I believe it’s also possible that it would turn off some industry people because the logline wasn’t clear on who the protagonist and the goal of the story.

With a logline having at least the three basic elements, I believe an industry person would have no other reason but the concept itself not interesting them, rather than an incomplete logline not getting across to them the “A” throughline of the story.
JoeNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2019, 11:51 AM   #90
jonpiper
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,594
Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNYC View Post
In the Logline forum, jonpiper gave a suggested logline to the OP suggesting for the focus to be just on the antagonist and not to include the protagonist, or his goal elements in the logline.

When I pointed out to jonpiper that his suggested logline was misleading because it gave the impression that the antagonist was the protagonist/anti-hero of the OPs’ story, he replied:

“in my opinion, nobody knows what ingredients a logline for a given screenplay must have to attract the most readers and decision to that screenplay.”

jonpiper says, “nobody knows.”

I wanted to address this, but I didn't want to derail the OP's thread, so I'm gonna discuss it here.

It’s been said time and time again that the basic ingredients (elements) that are required in a logline to attract readers are: protagonist, protagonist’s goal and antagonist force.

If someone wants to include these elements in a logline, is a different story.

All one has to do is look at written loglines from writers and they’ll see it includes these three basic elements.

For example, in a past thread called “Open Query letters to Michael B,” a hundred members posted a hundred loglines for Michael, an industry manager, to give his opinion if any were commercially worthy enough for the industry.

jonpiper, if you’d look at those hundred loglines, you’ll be hard pressed to find one that will not have included these three basic elements, so, this to me, means that writers DO KNOW what “ingredients” a logline must have to attract readers.

I don’t know of a screenplay that doesn’t have a hero, or anti-hero with a goal. Also, it’s very rare to find a screenplay that doesn’t have some type of antagonist force. The closest I can think of would be GRACE IS GONE.

Logline:

When a Midwestern father learns his army wife was killed in the Iraq war, he must come to terms with this devastating news before he could tell his two young daughters about their mother’s fate, so he delays by taking them on a road trip to their favorite amusement park in Florida.

GRACE IS GONE doesn’t have a clear antagonist, but you could say the antagonist is himself where he must cope and accept that his wife is gone.

In this thread and others there have been some members who have given examples of loglines with just the antagonist and excluded the protagonist and his goal, saying this was an effective way to get industry reads.

Do I believe this is possible? Sure, anything is possible, but I believe it’s also possible that it would turn off some industry people because the logline wasn’t clear on who the protagonist and the goal of the story.

With a logline having at least the three basic elements, I believe an industry person would have no other reason but the concept itself not interesting them, rather than an incomplete logline not getting across to them the “A” throughline of the story.
Joe, you said, “With a logline having at least the three basic elements, I believe an industry person would have no other reason but the concept itself not interesting them, rather than an incomplete logline not getting across to them the “A” throughline of the story.”

Joe, your whole argument seems grounded on yours and Michael B’s opinions that some “industry people” would be turned off by any logline that lacked a protagonist and the protagonist’s goal. They would refuse to read your screenplay based on that assumption.

You are entitled to your opinion. Is it supported by reality? Do Readers and Industry decision makers refuse to request screenplays when the logline submitted with the query lacks a protagonist and the protagonist’s goal.
jonpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Done Deal Pro

eXTReMe Tracker