Small Note for Women TV Writers

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  • #16
    Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

    What would be awesome -- if possible... would be if either Jeff or Derek could post just a 3-5 page opening of a spec pilot that they've read, that did get their attention.

    You know, something we're likely to never see because it was used for staffing and served its purpose. (with permission from the writer of course) and posted just anonymously, so nobody would know who or what...

    A blind sample of THIS IS HOW YOU OPEN A SPEC PILOT... when you're trying to get noticed for staffing.

    I feel like we get a lot of good discussion and samples on craft with features around here, but not always enough re: TV.

    Again - if possible.

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    • #17
      Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

      I read the names of the writers on the cover page and then dig in. I'll look up the credits too because if he or she worked on a show where I know someone who worked there... I can ask how he or she was in the room. There are two parts to this job... writing and coming up with ideas in the room.

      I didn't say it was a requirement for a female writer to write a male protagonist... I just said it was refreshing. The writer we hired to fill an open spot on Chicago Fire was a female who wrote a spec pilot with a female lead, so obviously there isn't a litmus test.

      No one was writing spec pilots specifically to get a job on Chicago Fire. These are just writing samples that could be used for any network drama.

      I was just dying at how many female writers opened their scripts the exact same way. This was not scientific... I have not noticed a pattern of similar openings written by men.

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      • #18
        Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

        Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
        So you're saying that one of the main reasons women writers are at a disadvantage is their lack of originality. Can you think of any other reasons off the top of your head?
        It's hard to get words out when you're putting new ones in my mouth.

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        • #19
          Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

          Those aren't my words in your mouth. That's your foot.

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          • #20
            Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

            Hahahah. I'm comfortable with my original post.

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            • #21
              Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

              The only time I would ever start a script with a woman waking up and going to work is if she had to feed the prisoner shackled in her basement or dress her taxidermied kids before leaving. That's just how I roll.

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              • #22
                Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
                I was just dying at how many female writers opened their scripts the exact same way. This was not scientific... I have not noticed a pattern of similar openings written by men.
                John August at some point on the podcast noted that he's read a lot of cop scripts that open with the main character waking up, hung over, a pan around his disheveled apartment, etc. He was like - don't do that!

                That's crazy that so many chick pilots start that way. I would never open with an early rise and jogging. It sound boring.

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                • #23
                  Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                  Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
                  A beautiful woman wakes up in bed and hits her alarm clock -- it reads 5 AM or 6 AM. She gets out of bed, puts on her jogging shoes, puts in her ear buds... and is off for a run while her boyfriend/husband/significant other lays in bed.

                  She's inevitably described as "smart as she is pretty" or "former tomboy, now beautiful" or whatever variation of that.

                  She returns home and showers, dresses... just as her boyfriend/husband gets up groggily... they have some conversation about "hey sleepyhead" or "glad to see you're up" or what-not.

                  Then the woman leaves for her job as doctor/detective/fashion designer/chef -- where she talks tough or is at the top of her game...
                  Which is more or less the theme of half the commercials on TV, no? So the writers in question are picking up on the zeitgeist.
                  If you really like it you can have the rights
                  It could make a million for you overnight

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                  • #24
                    Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                    Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                    I definitely agree about originality. That opening would be annoying no matter what, and it's appalling that you see this from so many repped writers.

                    But to say that women should be writing about men in order to be original - it hurts me to hear that from you. There are only two sexes on this planet, and one of them already gets so much of the attention in story form. Isn't there room for both of us?

                    Does this rule of originality only apply to us? Not to the men as well?

                    Well said, Emily.

                    On one hand, I'm delighted to hear 40 women writers had an opportunity to have their scripts read by Derek Haas. The fact that one third were so unoriginal is sad but can't we look at it optimistically: two-thirds of the women writers didn't make that mistake and one woman actually got the gig. Can we assume she was hired because her work was better than those of the guys who were up for it? Please say yes.
                    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                    • #25
                      Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                      This reminds me. I have a small note for showrunners:

                      Please be on the lookout for good writers, male and female, who can write stories that feature women who aren't always dead on the ground, naked. Now whether they are dead because they slept through their alarm, or because they didn't run fast enough -- doesn't matter. It's not refreshing at all.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                        Trust me, as Jeff said, 90 percent of the scripts were what I would consider sub-par. Originality, ability to write dialogue, ability to create an interesting character. Men and women. I just found it interesting that a third of the scripts by women started in almost the exact same way.

                        Just my observation that I thought I'd share with all of you.

                        Also... another interesting tidbit... I would guess that (pure guess) forty percent of the scripts written by women had either someone talking about sex or someone having sex in the first five pages.

                        I would put the number at about 2 percent of men's scripts.

                        Take what you want out of this information.

                        My main point is: be original. That goes for the men too.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                          Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                          Well said, Emily.

                          On one hand, I'm delighted to hear 40 women writers had an opportunity to have their scripts read by Derek Haas. The fact that one third were so unoriginal is sad but can't we look at it optimistically: two-thirds of the women writers didn't make that mistake and one woman actually got the gig. Can we assume she was hired because her work was better than those of the guys who were up for it? Please say yes.
                          You mistake me. More than one-third were unoriginal. Most were unoriginal. One third were sooo unoriginal that they started the EXACT SAME WAY.

                          My main point of posting this was to tell women writers in television that this opening has become a clam and to watch for it. Or keep doing what you're doing.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                            Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                            I definitely agree about originality. That opening would be annoying no matter what, and it's appalling that you see this from so many repped writers.

                            But to say that women should be writing about men in order to be original - it hurts me to hear that from you. There are only two sexes on this planet, and one of them already gets so much of the attention in story form. Isn't there room for both of us?

                            Does this rule of originality only apply to us? Not to the men as well?
                            From my view point it seems that they're so few woman screenwriters compared to men there is a far more noticable trend among them because of the group size. And nobody is going to get anywhere if everybody is writing the same thing. Woman or not.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                              Question for Derek and/or Jeff.

                              If I'm reading Derek properly, he was saying that most (all?) of these scripts were spec pilots? Is that what you guys are seeing as the preference nowdays for aspiring staffers? Original pilot specs instead of specs of existing shows?

                              And secondly (if you don't mind) Do you typically decide to meet and consider hiring off one strong sample? Or do you ask for a second sample of the writers who are in contention?

                              Thanks for your time and answers. Good stuff here.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Small Note for Women TV Writers

                                This is so fascinating. So what you're saying is that women seem to feel compelled to show right away that their female protags are physically fit, successful, and in stable relationships in which they are either on equal footing or might even have the upper hand.

                                I could chew on that for weeks. And I'm a girl.
                                "You have idea 1, you're excited. It flops. You have idea 99, you're excited. It flops.
                                Only a fool is excited by the 100th idea. Fools keep trying. God rewards fools." --Martin Hellman, paraphrased

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