Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

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  • Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

    Check out this article. There are apparently a number of lawsuits started by interns against industry companies. Some of them have been already settled. Some were lost and some were won. But there appears to be an explosion in these lawsuits, according to this article.

    http://music.yahoo.com/news/hollywoo...173217407.html

    I think this is very relevant information and needs to be seen by this thread, since I've seen people here recommend that screenwriters take internships to get into the industry. Make of this information what you will.
    Check out my videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/NyFilmmaker32/videos

  • #2
    Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

    In Los Angeles, I've seen intern abuse first hand and it has become way too common to use unpaid interns as free labor in the entertainment business. My internships were in development, so mostly I just read a ton of scripts, gave coverage, and answered phones for a big producer and a big company. Later when I asked if they'd read one of my scripts, they basically said yes and never did. I didn't learn anything except that I never want to be in development.

    The worst abuse occurs in production, when "interns" are asked to be PA's and work as grips, assistants, on set etc, working 16 to 18 hours days without being paid. My husband is a DP was "assigned" an intern who acts as a grip, even though he wants to be an animator. He's basically being asked to do the manual labor and not be paid. He doesn't even get lunch. This is a low budget film with many free "interns" working in various departments. It's horrible.

    This happens too much in this industry and the concept of an "internship" is completely abused and only used to save productions money, most of the time.

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    • #3
      Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

      Originally posted by sfire8 View Post
      In Los Angeles, I've seen intern abuse first hand and it has become way too common to use unpaid interns as free labor in the entertainment business. My internships were in development, so mostly I just read a ton of scripts, gave coverage, and answered phones for a big producer and a big company. Later when I asked if they'd read one of my scripts, they basically said yes and never did. I didn't learn anything except that I never want to be in development.

      The worst abuse occurs in production, when "interns" are asked to be PA's and work as grips, assistants, on set etc, working 16 to 18 hours days without being paid. My husband is a DP was "assigned" an intern who acts as a grip, even though he wants to be an animator. He's basically being asked to do the manual labor and not be paid. He doesn't even get lunch. This is a low budget film with many free "interns" working in various departments. It's horrible.

      This happens too much in this industry and the concept of an "internship" is completely abused and only used to save productions money, most of the time.
      I use unpaid interns all the time. And I grind them for up to 20 hours a day on set. Not one of them has ever complained.

      At the end of their internship (which is usually 4-6 weeks) and after we are confident in their specific abilities, then we generally find them a job with the company.

      If we don't have a set job for them, I'll either find them something with one of our colleagues or I will hire them for freelance work as needed.

      That's the nature of the beast in independent film.

      You have to squeeze every penny or else you won't get films made.

      Personally, I've worked thousands of hours for free.
      il faut d'abord durer

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      • #4
        Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

        4 years ago, billionaire Mark Cuban said his NBA basketball team wanted to start using social media, but... it didn't have "excess financial resources to subsidize this effort."

        So, he wanted to have unpaid interns set things up and run it - in order to see if it could become "a self sustaining business."

        When he discovered that this would violate the labor laws, he bitched about that on his blog.

        First of all, using social media to get the word out about your business is another way of saying "marketing".

        Second, he was saying he wanted to set up a commercial venture, the workers would work for free, and then if the venture failed, he'd be out a few bucks for equipment and office space, while those "workers" would (merely) have something "for their resumes."

        OTOH, if the venture became profitable, Mark Cuban would own 100% of it - oh, and maybe he'd hire some of those people who'd worked for free.

        If I open a restaurant, I may not offer an unpaid internship to someone who wants to learn about cooking, with the promise that, if he does a good job as a prep chef for 2/4/6 weeks, then I'll start paying him. Even if my culinary creations are as fabulous in both taste and presentation as an indie movie.

        OTOH, if I'm running a non-profit food bank and I "hire" unpaid workers to help me do that, that's OK.

        I'm not saying it's always wrong to have interns working for free on an entertainment venture, but the upside to the intern should be quite real and substantial.
        Last edited by Manchester; 06-28-2013, 03:46 PM. Reason: grammar - can vs. may

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        • #5
          Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

          I'm sorry LMPURVES, but I think it's wrong to "grind" your interns 20 hours per day. Maybe they'll all get together and file a suit against you and your blatant violations of California labor law.

          Just because they don't complain, doesn't make it right. It's not something I'd brag about.

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          • #6
            Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

            Originally posted by sfire8 View Post
            I'm sorry LMPURVES, but I think it's wrong to "grind" your interns 20 hours per day. Maybe they'll all get together and file a suit against you and your blatant violations of California labor law.

            Just because they don't complain, doesn't make it right. It's not something I'd brag about.
            Don't be sorry, you're entitled to your opinion.

            I, myself, work harder than my interns, and half the time I don't take any pay so I can sink the $ back into the budget.

            And since I don't live in LA, I'm not breaking your laws.

            Like I said, this is the nature of independent film.

            Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

            Incidentally, my interns are always students from well-known film schools. I don't have to pay them. Work experience is part of their curriculum and I give them grades for their work which go straight to their instructors.

            Work hard for me, and I will make sure you receive an A.

            They also get the added bonus of an actual job when they graduate.

            It's a win-win situation for us all.
            il faut d'abord durer

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            • #7
              Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

              Originally posted by LMPurves View Post
              Don't be sorry, you're entitled to your opinion.

              I, myself, work harder than my interns, and half the time I don't take any pay so I can sink the $ back into the budget.

              And since I don't live in LA, I'm not breaking your laws.

              Like I said, this is the nature of independent film.

              Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

              Incidentally, my interns are always students from well-known film schools. I don't have to pay them. Work experience is part of their curriculum and I give them grades for their work which go straight to their instructors.

              Work hard for me, and I will make sure you receive an A.

              They also get the added bonus of an actual job when they graduate.

              It's a win-win situation for us all.
              Do you live in the US or your independent films distributed in the US? That makes you subject to US Labor laws. Many of those intern lawsuits were in federal court.

              I'm not attacking you at all, but seeing the other interns win lawsuits may inspire a few of your interns to sue. I'm sure that companies offering internships (major companies at that) didn't anticipate these lawsuits or else they never would have done them.

              Years ago there were far fewer internships and they used to either pay or offer college credit. Now universities don't credit the vast majority of internships because these internships are not apprenticeships, instead they are UNPAID jobs like PA, Secretary, etc. The situation got way out of hand, and spread far beyond Hollywood, to the point where a number of businesses decide to use "interns" to replace paid employees in entry level jobs. Now there's a big backlash against this.
              Check out my videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/NyFilmmaker32/videos

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              • #8
                Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                It wasn't just covered by Reuters. Check out articles in the LA Times.

                http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,4432385.story

                http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/inte...light-lawsuit/

                http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3443430.html

                Many other media outlets are covering this. So this is becoming rather well known, and lawyers and reporters are saying this explosion in litigation will only grow. When all is said and done I think this is the END of the UNPAID intern. By the time those companies settle out of court, legal costs plus paying the interns backwages (and back taxes have to be paid), they have ended up spending more money than they would have if they had just paid them the minimum wage plus overtime.
                Check out my videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/NyFilmmaker32/videos

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                • #9
                  Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                  Laws aside -- because me no speako legalese -- if these people are signing up for these internships voluntarily, knowing exactly what they're getting into and how many hours they're going to be expected to spend on set, then why is there a problem? And is there a legal reason why they can't just call the interns "volunteers" and move on?
                  "You have idea 1, you're excited. It flops. You have idea 99, you're excited. It flops.
                  Only a fool is excited by the 100th idea. Fools keep trying. God rewards fools." --Martin Hellman, paraphrased

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                  • #10
                    Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                    Originally posted by WaitForIt View Post
                    Laws aside -- because me no speako legalese -- if these people are signing up for these internships voluntarily, knowing exactly what they're getting into and how many hours they're going to be expected to spend on set, then why is there a problem? And is there a legal reason why they can't just call the interns "volunteers" and move on?
                    They don't know exactly what they're getting in to, I think, and that's part of the problem. And like history has shown -- just in the last 100 years for crying out loud -- when you stand on Yertle's back too much, the turtle will eventually sneeze and topple the throne.

                    Here in New York -- where the case existed that caused this avalanche -- we have legal requirements that allow student interns to be exempt from specific labor laws (like, say, pay). The benefit to the intern should be educational, not just vocational, and the benefit to the intern should be GREATER than the benefit to the company. The intern should not be simply replacing what a paid person would otherwise do (ie: PA, office assistant). Fox pretty blatantly was trying to duck labor law.

                    Most internships (as I've seen them posted) are basically looking for free labor, taking advantage of the student's energy, enthusiasm, and burning desire to make contacts in the industry. The benefit in this relationship goes largely one way -- to the producer/prodco. Summer internships (if not most internships) often don't even give academic credit.

                    Sure the intern gets to know what it feels like to be a serf, and learns that beings a serf is acceptable, and that when she or he rises to the the lordship's seat that serfdom is a necessary system to perpetuate. The company sponsoring the internship gets the interns labor without having to contribute salary, social security, workers comp and other cash expenses.

                    Lisa's in Canada so different rules and laws. It sounds like the internships she has set up are supposed to be vocational, and her interns clearly benefit from their hard work -- they get academic credit, probably production credit (?) and they get a job. In my opinion, a vocational internship *should* give the intern a cold dose of reality to the vocation they're entering. It would serve them poorly to send them home at 6pm, when in reality their career will have them working until midnight.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                      Originally posted by WaitForIt View Post
                      Laws aside -- because me no speako legalese -- if these people are signing up for these internships voluntarily, knowing exactly what they're getting into and how many hours they're going to be expected to spend on set, then why is there a problem? And is there a legal reason why they can't just call the interns "volunteers" and move on?
                      Are you also implicitly making an argument against the minimum wage and the 40-hour work-week? There are reasoned arguments to be made against them - against the government's intrusion on the freedom to contract - but within a society that has such rules, it seems reasonable to have a rule against "volunteering" to work for free for a profit-making venture.

                      Originally posted by WaitForIt View Post
                      Laws aside -- because me no speako legalese -- ... And is there a legal reason why...

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                      • #12
                        Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                        Originally posted by WaitForIt View Post
                        Laws aside -- because me no speako legalese -- if these people are signing up for these internships voluntarily, knowing exactly what they're getting into and how many hours they're going to be expected to spend on set, then why is there a problem? And is there a legal reason why they can't just call the interns "volunteers" and move on?
                        So if your sneakers are made by a Malaysian peasant woman pulling down fifty cents a day, that's a sweatshop, but if she gets paid nothing at all then you can't see what all the fuss is about?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                          Originally posted by LMPurves View Post
                          I use unpaid interns all the time. And I grind them for up to 20 hours a day on set. Not one of them has ever complained.
                          So there's no confusion, are you really bragging that you hire unpaid interns and work them 20 hours a day?

                          Originally posted by WaitForIt View Post
                          Laws aside -- because me no speako legalese -- if these people are signing up for these internships voluntarily, knowing exactly what they're getting into and how many hours they're going to be expected to spend on set, then why is there a problem? And is there a legal reason why they can't just call the interns "volunteers" and move on?
                          There will always be people desperate enough to do something even if its extremely unfair. I could hire someone in desperate circumstances for 10 cents an hour. Just because he agrees to it doesn't mean I'm right or it's ok.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                            We all agree that studios insisting writers write screenplays for free is wrong, right?
                            Chicks Who Script podcast

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                            • #15
                              Re: Has Hollywood ignited an intern uprising? Examining the brewing revolution

                              Originally posted by MoviePen View Post
                              Sure the intern gets to know what it feels like to be a serf, and learns that beings a serf is acceptable, and that when she or he rises to the the lordship's seat that serfdom is a necessary system to perpetuate.
                              This expectation of unpaid labor to keep the wheels of the biz turning is the reason you will be asked, without shame, to do free rewrites until you're replaced by another writer to do more free rewrites.

                              I worked as a PA on independent films and got paid. Always. Little, but I got paid. That was before Kickstarter and cheaper digital media. If a project requires lots of free daily labor to get made, well maybe it doesn't need to get made. Paying people on your film reinforces respect for the process and for fellow filmmakers. Not paying them perpetuates a crappy work culture that glorifies a-holes and keeps writers in their place.

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