Script read with added offer??

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  • #16
    Re: Script read with added offer??

    Originally posted by Logliner View Post
    As I said, I'm not responding.
    It's a shame places like this are allowed to exist.
    Why not counter the offer? I wouldn't necessarily agree to write for free without knowing the subject matter, but I guess what you really have to determine is if they want something for free or if they believe in your abilities as a screenwriter.

    And I certainly wouldn't write something I had no interest in.

    Run... is a good response, but you've got nothing to lose by going back to them and explaining that you can't do it for nothing, right?

    I don't know. It's hard to say. What if they have a really cool concept? What do you feel about this person? Gut feeling?

    Best,
    FA4
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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    • #17
      Re: Script read with added offer??

      Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
      Why not counter the offer? I wouldn't necessarily agree to write for free without knowing the subject matter, but I guess what you really have to determine is if they want something for free or if they believe in your abilities as a screenwriter.

      And I certainly wouldn't write something I had no interest in.

      Run... is a good response, but you've got nothing to lose by going back to them and explaining that you can't do it for nothing, right?

      I don't know. It's hard to say. What if they have a really cool concept? What do you feel about this person? Gut feeling?

      Best,
      FA4
      Really?

      As a writer, when you create something, spending hundreds of hours using your hard work and talent, doing the research and then building a story, you need to be able to expect one of two things out of that investment. One, if it's a write for hire, money and maybe if fortune shines, a produced film and a credit. Or two, ownership of your story if no money has changed hands. In these cases you get neither. No money. No ownership. No nothing for your work. What other industry operates this way? Come work hundreds of hours for me for free and maybe some day you'll get paid, but probably not. I'm not talking about internships... you get something for that. You get inside to see how an industry operates. You don't get that return sitting in Starbucks writing a script you'll never own for free.

      In these kinds of cases your gut feeling should be to run away. Far and fast. If a company or a producer can't invest in your ability and your work doesn't cost them a cent, what do they care if the film gets made or not? THEY DON'T HAVE ANY INVESTMENT. And you have wasted time you could have spent writing a script you'd at least own. These are the modern sweat shops of screenwriting. They don't care about your talent. They don't care about who you are. They're hoping that if they get a thousand writers to write a script for free that maybe they'll get one they can use.

      Don't write for free. Don't do it. When you do, you set your worth to them at zero.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Script read with added offer??

        Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
        Why not counter the offer? I wouldn't necessarily agree to write for free without knowing the subject matter, but I guess what you really have to determine is if they want something for free or if they believe in your abilities as a screenwriter.

        And I certainly wouldn't write something I had no interest in.

        Run... is a good response, but you've got nothing to lose by going back to them and explaining that you can't do it for nothing, right?

        I don't know. It's hard to say. What if they have a really cool concept? What do you feel about this person? Gut feeling?

        Best,
        FA4
        In my experience, counter offers with these places usually go nowhere. This wasn't an accident where they'll go, "Oh, I didn't realize that I was asking you to write for free! Here, let me pay you now." The minute you say, "I believe in being paid at least something for my writing," they ignore you and move onto the next hopeful. Especially in this type of situation where they feel some possessory interest in the concept, even asking to own the rights to the script if they pass is a long shot, and likely a waste of time.

        Personally, I don't care how cool someone else's concept is. If I'm going to spend my time writing for free, I'm going to do it on my own spec that I'll own at the end of the process... not on someone else's project where they can just snatch it away and leave me with nothing after all the time and effort I put in. No concept, no matter how cool... no executive, no matter how high-profile... no company, no matter how good their track record... is worth letting them keep the results and proceeds of your work for free.

        As writers, we have to have more respect for ourselves than that. We have to value our contribution to the process more than that. We just have to.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Script read with added offer??

          Originally posted by Bunker View Post
          I've been offered this crap before.

          Here's how it works. The company is a wanna-be production company that doesn't have a firm pipeline into the studios. They might be a trailer cutting house or a start-up management firm. On Monday, they sit around a table and someone says, "The Purge did GREAT last weekend. Let's come up with some Purge concepts."

          So in that hour meeting, they scribble down a bunch of ideas that can all be described as "The Purge set in a submarine... bank... apartment complex...". Some assistant gets to flesh them all out into 1-sheets that contain a concept (not even a logline), some characters (usually as descriptive as "He's a Hugh Jackman-type), and a scene or two.

          They send that out to a couple of desperate writers. The writers, excited that they're being ask to pitch "on assignment" spend the next week breaking the story and preparing pitches and treatment. The exec chooses one and has him/her write the script with payment due upon commencement of production.

          But look at what this system creates. They've put in 2 hours of time coming up with a knock-off idea, which means THEY OWN IT. You're expected to put in 100+ hours turning that into a story. Yeah, you own the script, but they still own the concept.

          I once asked straight-up asked some guys if they had any plans to pay for the script. They said, "We don't have the funds for it now, but we bring all of our development experience to the project." Which means, they get to give as many notes as they want and get as many free rewrites as they want.

          Since they haven't put any skin in the game, they have no incentive to push this project. They'll throw a dozen of them at some financier. If they encounter any resistance - "No one wants the Purge anymore, they want possession stories" - they'll bury it immediately. And what have they lost? A few hours.

          I'm glad Centurio has made some money and credits off this system, but this is a horrible deal for a writer.

          Even whores get paid upfront.
          What he said.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Script read with added offer??

            Originally posted by SoCalScribe View Post
            In my experience, counter offers with these places usually go nowhere. This wasn't an accident where they'll go, "Oh, I didn't realize that I was asking you to write for free! Here, let me pay you now." The minute you say, "I believe in being paid at least something for my writing," they ignore you and move onto the next hopeful. Especially in this type of situation where they feel some possessory interest in the concept, even asking to own the rights to the script if they pass is a long shot, and likely a waste of time.

            Personally, I don't care how cool someone else's concept is. If I'm going to spend my time writing for free, I'm going to do it on my own spec that I'll own at the end of the process... not on someone else's project where they can just snatch it away and leave me with nothing after all the time and effort I put in. No concept, no matter how cool... no executive, no matter how high-profile... no company, no matter how good their track record... is worth letting them keep the results and proceeds of your work for free.

            As writers, we have to have more respect for ourselves than that. We have to value our contribution to the process more than that. We just have to.
            Agree.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Script read with added offer??

              Originally posted by SoCalScribe View Post
              In my experience, counter offers with these places usually go nowhere. This wasn't an accident where they'll go, "Oh, I didn't realize that I was asking you to write for free! Here, let me pay you now." The minute you say, "I believe in being paid at least something for my writing," they ignore you and move onto the next hopeful. Especially in this type of situation where they feel some possessory interest in the concept, even asking to own the rights to the script if they pass is a long shot, and likely a waste of time.

              Personally, I don't care how cool someone else's concept is. If I'm going to spend my time writing for free, I'm going to do it on my own spec that I'll own at the end of the process... not on someone else's project where they can just snatch it away and leave me with nothing after all the time and effort I put in. No concept, no matter how cool... no executive, no matter how high-profile... no company, no matter how good their track record... is worth letting them keep the results and proceeds of your work for free.

              As writers, we have to have more respect for ourselves than that. We have to value our contribution to the process more than that. We just have to.
              That's good advice.

              I negotiate for a living, and you never know what you can get if you don't ask. Even if in asking, you learn that your initial instinct was correct. My point is you've got nothing to lose, and only a potential, however small, upside.

              I mean, what's wrong with going back and asking to share the rights? I don't know, I'm not in this writer's shoes, and I don't know the intentions of the other party.

              Or what about getting a written agreement (contract) that states if they use any part of the material you've written or if the script sells then they have to pay you "XYZ?" Then you're not doing it for free. You'll soon know their intentions, I suspect.

              You're not getting paid to write your spec either. You don't know if anyone will be interested in your spec until you've finished it and sent it out.

              I'm NOT suggesting anyone write for free. What I'm suggesting is that when a door opens, walk through it an make sure there are NO opportunities before you shut it.

              You never know how an open mind can appeal to someone else's sensibilities, and perhaps somewhere down the line, they might think of you again for a project they can pay your for.

              Again, I don't know any of the parties involved, so I'm speaking hypotheticals.
              Best,
              FA4
              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Script read with added offer??

                Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                That's good advice.

                I negotiate for a living, and you never know what you can get if you don't ask. Even if in asking, you learn that your initial instinct was correct. My point is you've got nothing to lose, and only a potential, however small, upside.

                I mean, what's wrong with going back and asking to share the rights? I don't know, I'm not in this writer's shoes, and I don't know the intentions of the other party.

                Or what about getting a written agreement (contract) that states if they use any part of the material you've written or if the script sells then they have to pay you "XYZ?" Then you're not doing it for free. You'll soon know their intentions, I suspect.

                You're not getting paid to write your spec either. You don't know if anyone will be interested in your spec until you've finished it and sent it out.

                I'm NOT suggesting anyone write for free. What I'm suggesting is that when a door opens, walk through it an make sure there are NO opportunities before you shut it.

                You never know how an open mind can appeal to someone else's sensibilities, and perhaps somewhere down the line, they might think of you again for a project they can pay your for.

                Again, I don't know any of the parties involved, so I'm speaking hypotheticals.
                Best,
                FA4
                Everyone's entitled to handle their business however they choose. The one caveat I'll add to the whole, "You never know until you explore all your options" philosophy is that you can end up wasting an extraordinary amount of time playing these maybe-they'll-pay-me-at-some-point, maybe-we-can-work-something-out games. If you're extremely passionate about something, by all means explore your options to the fullest... but it's also important to realize when you've got a dud on your hands and that there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't think this 'opportunity' is for me."

                Yes, it's always possible that the stars will align and you'll make a friend of an executive who will remember you down the line. Or that you'll negotiate a fantastic deal for yourself, write it on spec, and they end up loving it, elevating it out of the collective spec farm they've created, and then you'll be the exception that gets paid a bunch of money.

                There's also a (strong) possibility that a place like this - which starts out by offering a writer whose work they haven't even read the 'opportunity' to spec for them for free - has no intention of ever doing right by the writer. It's a gamble, either way. If you walk away, maybe you miss out on a hidden gem of an deal in there somewhere. Conversely, if you stick around and try to finagle a deal, maybe you spend days, weeks, or even months getting the run-around only to realize you've wasted all that time chasing a dead end.

                At the end of the day, each writer is responsible for his or her own career choices. Personally, I choose not to waste my time trying to negotiate with places whose opening offer is, "Write this for free for me and if I like it we'll talk." In my experience, the oh-wow-I-didn't-realize-I-was-screwing-you, let's-make-you-a-legitimate-deal-now places are few and far between and not worth the sheer amount of time it takes to try and find them. But that's just me. YMMV.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Script read with added offer??

                  I'm with SoCalScribe on this one. The company has no film credits and neither does any of the execs that make up the company. The bottom line is they want me to put out a huge amount of effort for maybe something well down the road and I won't even own it at the end of the day.

                  The whole idea seemed dubious to me from the get-go. I was just curious if anyone actually had a success story out of such an arrangement.
                  The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense - Tom Clancy

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